ATTN: DAVE the Drummer

[DannyBlack]

:-D me too. good times.

[teknorich]

Is it illegal though? On his website it says:

"Live DJ Sets are not copyrighted, however a few live DJ sets have been commercially released in the past. These sets will not be found on this Web Site, only non copyrighted non-commercially released DJ Sets are available on this site."

It is definitely cheeky, but if the above is true, then it is not illegal, and as DAVE etc don't own the recordings, they would not be due any royalties anyway.

I really don;t know how the law works on this topic. I woudl have thought the legal owner of the mix set mp3 was the club or the radio show who recorded it, not the DJ themselves, but even so I think we can take it for granted this dude has not approached each club/radio show to ask for permission to sell their sets.

[teknorich]

It is a weird one. I mean, you buy postcards from an art gallery, and they are reproduced with the permission of whoever owns the painting, so in that way I'd have thought the fella would have to get the permission of the club/radio show in order to sell the set. But then on ebay etc you can buy old flyers from clubs and raves, but the seller does not go and get permission from the club to sell their old flyers.

When stuff is given away for free, for promotional purposes, who owns it?

On the back of Mixmag CDs etc it always says "Not for resale" but I have bought them from Ebay and Discogs before now. That is definitely illegal, but nobody cares.

It's definitely cheeky, and I'm glad DAVE complained and had it withdrawn from ebay, but at the same time it appears to be legal, if distasteful.

[tonyc2002]

I can appreciate the convenience factor, i.e. paying some throbber a few quid if you can't be ****ed to scour the net to find those sets you've been dying to get to hold off, but its pretty damn cheeky to attempt to make a profit without even trying to get permission.

I would also argue that there is indeed a copyright issue as it is still recorded music that was being played to the public (PPL/PRS anyone?). But ho hum, I'm not a lawyer.

[teknorich]

But that then opens a whole other can of worms - i.e. when a DJ's promotional set is put online to download, it contains copywrited material (the tracks he mixed with) so should the artists of those tracks then be asked permission/ given royalties for the set to be made available? Should DAVE have to get permission from every artist in his mix before he can upload a promo mix? That would seem way excessive...

[tonyc2002]

But that then opens a whole other can of worms - i.e. when a DJ's promotional set is put online to download, it contains copywrited material (the tracks he mixed with) so should the artists of those tracks then be asked permission/ given royalties for the set to be made available? Should DAVE have to get permission from every artist in his mix before he can upload a promo mix? That would seem way excessive...

I think if you start charging for a DJ mix (i.e. if it was a published commercial compilation) then the artists involved would be entitled to royalties yes (or the labels would be). If the tracks are unpublished then I don't think they would get any royalties (at least not from collection agencies).

Also, if its just for promotional use (i.e. free) then technically the artist may be entitled to some form of compensation if the DJ was getting bookings, and thereby making a profit from exploiting the artists work, but has anyone ever heard of this happening!? Doubt it to be honest.

**** knows man, its a grey area really.

[Jay Pace]

If the dj is playing entirely creative commons material, its still breaking the terms of the copyright (no commercial gain)

If its copyrighted material, its illegal to distribute it, and is effectively piracy. Even more of a cuntish thing to do is sell it.

This is basically like charging someone for pirated software. Loads of people might give it away for free, but selling it is another level of cuntishness.

Hope he gets prosecuted.

[teknorich]

So all these sets are piracy?

http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/forum...2010-sets.html

They all contain copyrighted material (the records played by the DJs in the sets), and tho they are not being charged for, they are being distributed by someone who does not own the rights to the records, and who does not pay the artists for being included in the recording.

"If its copyrighted material, its illegal to distribute it, and is effectively piracy."

That would include literally any dj mix you download from BOA or any other source. Is it illegal to download dj sets then?

(@ Tony - this really is a grey area!!!)

[Jay Pace]

yup

edit, not sure about all of this, just found this though which is pretty helpful

http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licensingfaq.html

It sort of all depends on who holds the rights to the music, and what they allow. Some music can't be played in public without consent, most music can't be distributed freely without express consent, so a liveset full of copyrighted stuff could constitute piracy.

But its up to someone to care, or want to stop it really. If nobody has a problem with djs playing stuff in public, and livesets floating around with their material, its a little irrelevant what the letter of the law dictates.

[Patrick DSP]

a few years back, in NYC, they busted almost every shop selling hip hop mix tapes because of this. Club DJ mix tapes were also hit in the sweep... (which is why they went the way of radio shows/podcasts)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/16/ar...ic/16sann.html

for the most part, recordings of live events would fall under the same category as a bootlegged tape of concerts/movies. they're illegal if you really want to be strict about it. but they would need the tracks to be identified, and have the copyright holder or representing body make a formal complaint.

As it was mentioned before, it's a really grey area for what we do.

[hardacid]

defo grey area...in regard to any mix thats ever been up and about on the net or sets thatve been for sale...for example all the skelter/dreamscape packs an that kinda thing obv pay **** all for the makers of said music

idve thought if u dont have tracklists inc on the tape packs/cd's then its ok...

[davethedrummer]

anyway who gives a **** about the law ?
it's the moral right and wrong that's at stake here
not the legal issue.

[basslinejunkie]

sorry to say this, but i bet absolutely everyone one of you downloads movies from the net, this is exactly the same.

sure this guy is selling other peoples sets but thats just the same as downlaoding someone elses movie for free.

[teknorich]

Even if we just download a live dj set, which we definitely ALL do here, that is very likely to be breach of copyright, as no royalties etc would have been paid for the copyright material, so we are all guilty.

I think people get all bent out of shape cos this fella is making profit from it, which is a bit hypocritical. Is his copyright breach worse than yours, cos he makes profit from it and you don't? Is that what it boils down to - money? Is it only morally wrong if someone makes $$$ from it?

I've got a whole bunch of Helter Skelter tape packs at home, for which the artists whose copyrighted records appear in the mixes would not have received a single penny in royalties, but nobody complains about that... (Sure, the club makes money which helps the scene, but the artists don't, so it is still breach of copyright).

It's a very grey area, and nobody comes out with a halo. If you wanna be totally by the book, then it seems any DJ set with copyrighted matertial in it being distributed without consent/royalties would be piracy, so we are all guilty. People want to make others seem more or less guilty than themselves, but at the end of the day a copyright breach is a copyright breach, however it is distributed and whether profit is made from it or not.

[APC]

Do techno producers get much in the way of royalties from PRS?

[morbid]

Absolutely sweet FA

They got a hard enough time dealing with how many times Hit me baby one more time got dropped last month than ****ing about with Mike Humpries last white label

About thruppence ha'penny per annum

[basslinejunkie]

Even if we just download a live dj set, which we definitely ALL do here, that is very likely to be breach of copyright, as no royalties etc would have been paid for the copyright material, so we are all guilty.

I think people get all bent out of shape cos this fella is making profit from it, which is a bit hypocritical. Is his copyright breach worse than yours, cos he makes profit from it and you don't? Is that what it boils down to - money? Is it only morally wrong if someone makes $$$ from it?

I've got a whole bunch of Helter Skelter tape packs at home, for which the artists whose copyrighted records appear in the mixes would not have received a single penny in royalties, but nobody complains about that... (Sure, the club makes money which helps the scene, but the artists don't, so it is still breach of copyright).

It's a very grey area, and nobody comes out with a halo. If you wanna be totally by the book, then it seems any DJ set with copyrighted matertial in it being distributed without consent/royalties would be piracy, so we are all guilty. People want to make others seem more or less guilty than themselves, but at the end of the day a copyright breach is a copyright breach, however it is distributed and whether profit is made from it or not.

bingo.

[tonyc2002]

Even if we just download a live dj set, which we definitely ALL do here, that is very likely to be breach of copyright, as no royalties etc would have been paid for the copyright material, so we are all guilty.

I think people get all bent out of shape cos this fella is making profit from it, which is a bit hypocritical. Is his copyright breach worse than yours, cos he makes profit from it and you don't? Is that what it boils down to - money? Is it only morally wrong if someone makes $$$ from it?

I've got a whole bunch of Helter Skelter tape packs at home, for which the artists whose copyrighted records appear in the mixes would not have received a single penny in royalties, but nobody complains about that... (Sure, the club makes money which helps the scene, but the artists don't, so it is still breach of copyright).

It's a very grey area, and nobody comes out with a halo. If you wanna be totally by the book, then it seems any DJ set with copyrighted matertial in it being distributed without consent/royalties would be piracy, so we are all guilty. People want to make others seem more or less guilty than themselves, but at the end of the day a copyright breach is a copyright breach, however it is distributed and whether profit is made from it or not.

Yep, it all boils down to money.

If someone was making huge bucks from pirating someone else's stuff then it would be worth the copyright holder paying for a lawyer to screw them to the wall.

No one in their right mind though is going to fork out for expensive legal action when the compensation is going to be peanuts.

[NickyG]

Attention Dave (again).

The cheeky little bleeder is still flogging your sets on his website:

djsets.co.uk | Compilations > Techno, Minimal & Electro
djsets.co.uk | Compilations > D.A.V.E The Drummer

I literally cannot believe this guy, he really has turned plain old leeching into an artform. I see he has now taken down his Facebook page as well, maybe due to some unwanted attention.