technicians vs musicians in the techno world

[davethedrummer]

i knew aphex built his own gear etc, but you can't tell me selected ambient works 85-92 and richard d james albums didn't have any musicianship?

you can play all the melodies on ambient works by using just the black keys.
try it.

[SlavikSvensk]

being a "great musician," in terms of knowing your instrument or gear inside and out, does not make you a good composer.

having more limited knowledge of these doesn't make you a bad one either. if that was the case, no one would speak of punk or early house/techno in the reverent terms they do.

that said, techno is kind of past the "presets on a 303+presets on a 909+simple patters" period, and hasn't yet entered a period of anti-technical lowfi production (though believe me, it's almost assured). right now, you need to demonstrate a certain level of technical proficiency behind the boards (real or virtual) to get noticed.

being able to play a non-electronic instrument, or not, doesn't seem to have much bearing on whether someone makes good techno at all.

[morbid]

It doesn't matter a bit in electronic music

Any idiot can programme a synth, tweak some knobs, click some pretty red lights on a sequencer

See Beatport Top 10 for more info

[clubsynthetic]

Beatport a benchmark?

lol

[morbid]

Yes

A benchmark of the sort of epic shitness that is churned out by non-musicians

[blistanbul]

you can play all the melodies on ambient works by using just the black keys.
try it.

i have a mini korg care to share some notes?


what do you consider yourself dave a technician or a musician more in line in a classical sense?


also have you ever thought of making ambient tunes?

[clubsynthetic]

with terminology like "black keys", hes obviously a musician :P

[clubsynthetic]

Yes

A benchmark of the sort of epic shitness that is churned out by non-musicians

Yeah, I understood that. I just thought the statement was funny.

[davethedrummer]

Yes

A benchmark of the sort of epic shitness that is churned out by non-musicians

what are you talking about mate ?
just because you don't like it, don't make it bad.
and I disagree, the Beatport top ten is probably WAY more musically challenging to make, than most techno will ever be, mostly being house and trance, which In my experience are demanding styles because of the extreme amount of competition and the high production quality involving vocalists and complicated melodic structures, this kind of stuff can only be made in decent studios by competent people , no way can idiots throw this kind of stuff together.
and no not any idiot can tweak some knobs program a synth or do any of that stuff
sorry but it's not that easy.
to say that is to totally undermine the history of dance music i.m.o.

sorry bud , but maybe you want to rethink that rather brash statement.

[davethedrummer]

I am a musician of sorts
but not a proficient keyboard player, more a Drummer with a good sense of melody due to my parents both being professional musicians, I learnt Piano and Guitar when I was very young but never did any exams or grades.

but yeah "black keys" is a bit non-muso but that's what I meant

I am a drummer after all.....

[force]

and no not any idiot can tweak some knobs program a synth or do any of that stuff
sorry but it's not that easy.

QFT

[BloodStar]

bit of both = win

[morbid]

what are you talking about mate ?
just because you don't like it, don't make it bad.
and I disagree, the Beatport top ten is probably WAY more musically challenging to make, than most techno will ever be, mostly being house and trance, which In my experience are demanding styles because of the extreme amount of competition and the high production quality involving vocalists and complicated melodic structures, this kind of stuff can only be made in decent studios by competent people , no way can idiots throw this kind of stuff together.
and no not any idiot can tweak some knobs program a synth or do any of that stuff
sorry but it's not that easy.
to say that is to totally undermine the history of dance music i.m.o.

sorry bud , but maybe you want to rethink that rather brash statement.

Fair comments

I do think though that the proliferation of non-musicians in recent years has diluted what we listen to to a certain extent

I think the evolution of synthesisers, drum machines and software has facilitated the creation of electronic music by non-musicians who wouldn't know B flat from a council flat

My four year old can play about with the envelope or cutoff in a musical way but I bet she's shit on the violin

[DarkYoung]

Fair comments

I do think though that the proliferation of non-musicians in recent years has diluted what we listen to to a certain extent

I think the evolution of synthesisers, drum machines and software has facilitated the creation of electronic music by non-musicians who wouldn't know B flat from a council flat

My four year old can play about with the envelope or cutoff in a musical way but I bet she's shit on the violin

like your mum's legs

[clubsynthetic]

I am a musician of sorts
but not a proficient keyboard player, more a Drummer with a good sense of melody due to my parents both being professional musicians, I learnt Piano and Guitar when I was very young but never did any exams or grades.

but yeah "black keys" is a bit non-muso but that's what I meant

I am a drummer after all.....

Aye dood, I'm just tuggin' yer chain ;)

[davethedrummer]

Fair comments

I do think though that the proliferation of non-musicians in recent years has diluted what we listen to to a certain extent

I think the evolution of synthesisers, drum machines and software has facilitated the creation of electronic music by non-musicians who wouldn't know B flat from a council flat

My four year old can play about with the envelope or cutoff in a musical way but I bet she's shit on the violin

I hear you
Yeah there's just a lot more music around these days because it's so "easy" to make and yes that has filled the pot to overflowing. But there have always been people who are good at it and people what aren't and that has nothing to do with musical knowledge.

My mum who is a retired piano teacher always used to say "music is 1% talent and 99% hard work" , and that is as true now as it's always been, in my opinion. Learning software and working out how to make music with computers is a complicated process which requires determination and effort, and often years of hard work to really accomplish something really special.
Yeah you can make a track in 5 mins but it will be crap and it will just sit in the quagmire of crapness with all the other tracks made in 5 minutes
( of which there are so many now, I grant you that. )

I think it was Edward Elgar the british composer who couldn't really write music too well, He was self taught. So he worked with an academic to help him write his orchestrations, similar to the role a producer might play in a studio now don't you think ?

So there it is.

[SlavikSvensk]

think vocals are way harder to do than beats or synths. need much more expensive equipment too, to do it right.

[MARK ANXIOUS]

really fantastic posts here guys.... especially the last morbid and dave drummer ones.... keep them coming!!! :)

[clubsynthetic]

It doesn't matter a bit in electronic music

Any idiot can programme a synth, tweak some knobs, click some pretty red lights on a sequencer

See Beatport Top 10 for more info

I was thinking about this over a wee doob...



Not really. The only knowledge you need to make music is the knowledge you have already for yourself and other people (possibly space cadets - i don't know). so what if we think it's shit?

the thing is everyone listens to music in a different way and therefor cannot really compare anyone to anyone - as it is said - cue cliche - "one man's shite is another mans sugar"

but don't get me wrong - i think beatport is utterly boring.

and then speak to a technician, they will tell you half of what they do is art (i.e compression) and half science.

in a way, technicians need to know how to be musical in some sort of way, if they are to transcend the ideas of artists accurately.

[Jake Conlon]

I always think of them being the same thing with regards to Techno.