Hard techno's shooting itself!

[djvartan]

i dont wear any
Underwear.

.
,

[jonnyspeed]

I completely with the problem being DJs not mixing it up enough - look at some of the hard signal mixes - the beat is continous but the tunes are a real variation. Sept 2003 by Sven Wittekind and Oct 2003 by Timo A. Hummel are marvellous! One of the reasons the like of Henry and Chris Liberator are loved so much is because they can drop lots of sounds from Kiddaz through SUF through to Pounding Grooves - variety - they may get knocked for playing techhouse and hard house stlye acid because they can mix not just beat match and swop.

[tioneb]

interesting thread.. i just think in every techno subdivision, whatever u call it the 3 last years just showed blatant un-innovation. the few ones who tried to innovate just see this wasnt worthless and get the rewards of their efforst, they know who they are.

[Col]

I still really enjoy the hard stuff at the moment. Admittenly I am losing interest with the German stuff at the moment, the harder German stuff, but like aint it just a phase, another phase in the cyclic nature of all things. The Natus et al. style was rad this time last year, now, I don't know, it's not as new really..

i share this opinion, the hard german sound is lacking imagination right now. imo

[dtl]

If you were a producer and labels are screaming to sign your tracks coz you are the man in the heat, you are not going to say no. Type Sven Wittikind at Web record and see how many tunes he put out in the last six months, I would say its enough to fill a 4 hours set. The point is how many of them really stand out? Um, probably 2 tracks and both are on Kne Deep 25.

Anyway, let them be overheat and let the djs with no ear buying the same tunes over and over again, what do you have to care if you feel you are picking the right bits?

As for mixing skills, I have stressed this before, most European producers are very bad djs, and they dont produce tunes with a Dj-friendly appoarch, a lot of tunes have an extra bar here and there, if you want a long tight phrase mix and chop around would become very awekard since it gets out of pharse very quick. So it reduces Djs to mix short in these short phrases, alternatively, you can be innovative to do some nice sharp mixes (With tunes that sound extremely similar would work a treat.) Obviously a sampler and effects would minimise the dullness of such -short-boring-non-chopping mixing.

Anyway, will leave you with a gem. Check out Midimiliz "No Alibi". Sythey Stormper.

Eric.

[BloodStar]

Nowadays, it's not just hard techno which is shooting itself. this division of techno music is the closest to me and one I like the most,.
Quality of some EPs which are coming out everyday is nothing special or inovative in most cases. but I mean there's no need to get inovation everyday, but just quality stuff would be more appreciated. Also in some cases on the first place is quantiy instead of quality, which should be the one what it's all about.
I don't like the German style of hard techno too much, it lacks its warmth, all about distortion and furious speed. no sense inside. not at all, indeed, but in most cases this is all about.
Djing is depending on each other, imo. because it's up to you if you just beatmatch record after record in a few seconds or start to build up a story comparable to track which has hour and half or two. and it'a also up to you which elements, in this case EPs you'll use to put them in. and how you'll do that. fast or slow mixes, equalization, EFXs,and so...

[jonnyspeed]

...I always thought Glenn Wilson just got a loop from Turnkey, wacked it through a geeetar fuzz pedal and added fileters every 32 bars. And **** me - its true!

lol

[daviec]

I know what folk are saying about the hard sound. There are a shitload of formulaic tracks coming out, but it's pushed me "deeper" as it were. My sets retain a hard edge, but the other night for example I was playing wunsch, exium, bmb, reeko, archae & grovskopa, and the likes.

However I still found a place in my set for some of the harder producers. I don't agree that they've all gone stale. In that same set I played "Keiner Da" by Robert Natus on utilities 28. This guy is really trying something different. And Henry Cullen & Julian Liberator on 4x4x18 wasn't anything like most of henry's stuff and I played it as my last track. Brilliant stuff.

I think people just have to look further than the usual suspects. It's possible to play a hard set without sticking to the formulas.

[DJZeMig_L]

Yesterday I was looking thru e-record shops... and I was thinking that a lot of the stuff is sounding more and more like hard Core/ gabba... thunderdomme music 2 me!? :?:


Anyways respect, each one 2 it's own,

Z

[TripleX]

[quote="dtl"]As for mixing skills, I have stressed this before, most European producers are very bad djs, and they dont produce tunes with a Dj-friendly appoarch, a lot of tunes have an extra bar here and there, if you want a long tight phrase mix and chop around would become very awekard since it gets out of pharse very quick. So it reduces Djs to mix short in these short phrases, alternatively, you can be innovative to do some nice sharp mixes (With tunes that sound extremely similar would work a treat.) Obviously a sampler and effects would minimise the dullness of such -short-boring-non-chopping mixing.

[quote]

i agree, especially the harder german guys....
i haven t heard a good hard techno mix for ages, all they do is pitch up to 155bpm, let a track go for 5 mins and then bring another track in with always the same formula (like Ze Mig L said)......

to me it´s not the tracks that kill it, but the lazy way they r mixed....

[basslinejunkie]

I know what folk are saying about the hard sound. There are a shitload of formulaic tracks coming out, but it's pushed me "deeper" as it were. My sets retain a hard edge, but the other night for example I was playing wunsch, exium, bmb, reeko, archae & grovskopa, and the likes.

However I still found a place in my set for some of the harder producers. I don't agree that they've all gone stale. In that same set I played "Keiner Da" by Robert Natus on utilities 28. This guy is really trying something different. And Henry Cullen & Julian Liberator on 4x4x18 wasn't anything like most of henry's stuff and I played it as my last track. Brilliant stuff.

I think people just have to look further than the usual suspects. It's possible to play a hard set without sticking to the formulas.

exactly.variation is the key in my view.

[DJPAUZE]

Wow, some really good points up top there. Hard to figure out where to begin.
I understand what you are saying about formulation up top but I its mainly been in the Harder stuff from Germany. Alot of the harder stuff from there is sounding like its all made on Fruity loops and just like one of the above guys mentioned, those producers are not following any proper sequencing which makes it virtualy impossible to mix.
I hope that these guys will all break into Cubase, Logic and get heavy into Midi because the creativity of tracks seems to be going downhill.
All in all I dont think its Glenn Wilson stuff people should look at. He seems to be putting out some nice stuff on his labels at the moment. I think in the near future things willl change up.

Take Care
Pauze

[crime]

Alot of the harder stuff from there is sounding like its all made on Fruity loops and just like one of the above guys mentioned, those producers are not following any proper sequencing which makes it virtualy impossible to mix.

?
Why impossible to mix?
something produced on fruity loops is surely more likely to be more rigid, timing problems are much more likely with midi..
Is it neccesary for a tune to be "Mixable"?
What is "Mixable" anyway?

[death on a stick]

some of this "unmixable" hard techno sounds a lot more interesting. I can't believe people seem to be complaining that their records are not formulaic enough for them to deal with as DJs!!! :lol:

[DJPAUZE]

Okay I dont want to start a war here with Fruity Loops people. This all a matter of opinion okay? And yes I agree there are problems with midi. But you WILL NOT get the output of midi out of Fruity Loops, Im sorry.
I dont really like the sound that comes out of the program. And in terms of mixing. Putting like 15 offset beats in a track is not my cup of tea. If im mixing records one or two offsets is cool like what Lars Klein does.
But having offsets during the track throughout damages the sonic sound of my mix.

Peace
Pauze

[ampassasinbirmingham]

away from the mixing issue.

I do believe its not the wilson type stuff either. i think its the Hard german lot that are producing samey track on a weekly production line. I saw three ep's by one of them in a single week a couple of months agao.

[DJZeMig_L]

I don't think fruity or otherwise accounts for having an odd bar counting, I would probably think more of live work, that's when the counting seems 2 be a little off.

Fruity and Sx can do wounderfull things, I have & do work with both, the sound is what I make of it! sure there is differences but don't think this is the place 2 get into it!

The old minimal stuff was hardly compatible with the normal 8-16-32 bar count still it banged.. But again if u r doing stuff which is more formulaic I guess respecting these is important.

I try 2 respect them as much as possible, "my inovation" (renovation, what ever u wanna call it) is a donne thru the sequences, sounds and sequencing... but then each person has they're experimentalist threshold.. !

Z

[dtl]

CRIME: Why impossible to mix?
Is it neccesary for a tune to be "Mixable"?
What is "Mixable" anyway?

Well, unless you are a master mixer, take years to perfect long/short mixes, having a pair of good ears, good knowledge on tunes (And able to match them in your head) as well as scratch up samples in tune with the music, plus using special EFX and sampler..... I think that's asking way too much for most dance music djs. In fact, those who can achieve everything I mentioned would definitely be bored of mixing music and gone on to produce music or DMCing or building the next Mars shuttle.

Anyway, for a normal standard dj, a mixable tune means there are at least 2 to 4 phrases that are continious, so they can beatmatch it, do a few tricks before cutting it over, sharply or smoothly. Had a track got this extra bar and make the mix out of phrase in the middle, it sounds terrible, short mixes can solve that problem, but it's quite boring if you dont have amazing tune, a sampler or an Efx unit.

Every tune is mixable, just the way which it is best to be mixed would require different skills. Each need time to perfect regardless.

Eric.

[Bughead]

Isnt its popularity based on what punters want to hear thus driving the producers to churn out more.

As the genre is finding its way through the darkness it will become more innovative and more interesting things will happen.

This is just a digestion process where people will listen to german nosebleed techno and want to add their own ideas to it..

It just takes some time. And remember this is not an overnight thing ( DJ Amok , Wittenkind ) they have been sitting around for three years or so developing their sound and not giving up on what they believe in.

Anyway....

[Patrick DSP]

remember...

everything is underground untill you know about it.
and when that happens, it's mainstream.

do what you like. challenge yourself. stay happy. others will take notice in time.