Seriously Hard German Techno...

[dtl]

Well, Amok mentioned he makes only few hundreds euros from each release on Artillery, that is after selling over 1000 copies, it makes sense if you look at the prices on Web-records, 6 euros for 1 record is laughable.

I too suggested Curve Pusher, but then it would defo increase the cost to elimuate any gross profit, tho I find it hard to believe there isnt a decent German presser, where do Kiddaz get their tuens pressed then? The Suck My Deck album is a chunk of a vinyl. Very nicely pressed.

Eric.

[h.a.r.d.s.i.g.n.a.l]

his hands are tied,imagine how much itd cost him 2 use curve pusher

i think that's one of the biggest problems is nobody except for a select few here have produced, mastered and cut vinyl. unless you have money to burn, it costs every cent you have to put that sh*t out. if it wasn't for smaller labels like Combat and producers like Amok, techno would stagnate. if we wank and moan that everyone doesn't sound like Curve Pusher, it'll fade away without ever having a chance to evolve quality-wise. and THAT would be f**kin lame.

if you like it at all, support it. if you don't, shut the f**k up. simple.

[dirty_bass]

Hmmm, lets not confuse curve pusher with curved pressings.

Lawrie does a good cut at Curve Pusher, if you get him to do it BUT he cuts to laquer.
You are better off going to one of a number of german companies who do direct to metal mastering, which will end up, if you are based in germany, cheaper and better.

[h.a.r.d.s.i.g.n.a.l]

Hmmm, lets not confuse curve pusher with curved pressings.

my bad. i was thinking Immersion, and in my zeal to get my thots out i mis-spoke...

[basslinejunkie]

i always do that

[Dustin Zahn]

All music and preferences aside, if a label can't afford to sell the public a decent product they don't belong in business. Curve Pusher isn't terribly expensive (imo) and mastering can make or break a track (take notes chester beatty). Unless you're a decent sized producer or on a good label, you're probably only going to make a few hundred to 1,000 euros/dollars tops. I'd rather just spend the extra money and be respected for a better product rather than making a few bucks off of a shitty product. A label and producer should take pride in their music! The whole product, tracks, mastering, art, etc. all represent the artist and label.

[DJAmok]

Takin pride in your music is one thing, risiking every penny you every earned in your shitty life to press 400 records at a mediocre german pressing plant, the only profit being selling em on ebay for 10 euro a piece at first is another.

I did the calculatios, even if I pressed my 1500 copies at Curved Pressings and sold every one of em, I´d still be losing money. It´s not the pressing that is expensive (actually the price is very reasonable) it´s the shipping to Germany.

I couldn´t afford it all the time, but now I might even take the blow and have each release pressed at Curved Pressings, limit each to 1000 copies and get em out on good quality vinyl. There´s no real money to be made off it anyways, so who cares about winning or losing a few hundred euros. Everyone loved my Kne Deep which was mastered at Curved Pressings, so I think that´s the way I´ll go.

[MARKEG]

I'd seriously recommend going to curve pusher for cutting mate. Lawrie just seems to have a way with hard techno. I mean the DIFFERENCE with our stuff is just staggering. When our tracks are cut somewhere else they just seem to loose the attitude. Lawrie has it spot on for hard techno without a doubt.

Actually, Can I just get something straight here. A few ppl seem to have put me in the category of not liking 'Schranz' because of what other ppl said after my initial post. Well if you read it I'm not talking about Schranz. To me Schranz is hard techno. And I'm definitely not talking about hard techno cause I make it ;) I play Sven's stuff everywhere. What's I'm talking about is (well a typical one I mean is the A1 of this new Combat Skill by Frank). It's this one beat looped stuff I mean. Perhaps I should have explained myself better. And yeah, I think I would rather listen to gabba like Fernando said.

You know, it sounds so digital and souless when hard techno is pushed to this extreme. Amok, you know I like some of your stuff but remember when you send me your cd (some of it I really liked) but I said about distortion? I really think some people 'over' distort and they think that's the key to hardness. But surely distorting the shit out of all the parts in the track means you get this 'fuzz' of nothingness? It might sound good on 17 pills and a bag of speed but i'm just not getting it.

I think this is a big problem in hard techno right now - especially with more ppl getting access to being able to make music out of their bedrooms. I've always said 'controlled' distortion is the key to techno production. But now we're having brand new producers who've heard the effect of distortion on a downloaded crack plugin and think - wow, I'm making hard techno.

See what I mean?

[Dustin Zahn]

Takin pride in your music is one thing, risiking every penny you every earned in your shitty life to press 400 records at a mediocre german pressing plant, the only profit being selling em on ebay for 10 euro a piece at first is another.

Right. I guess that's the line every producer needs to find between being an artist and having a hobby, or making money off their work. I went to an art show/post-rave last night where some of the art exhibitions probably cost them a few hundred dollars to make each. While the projects are for sale, quite a few of them probably won't sell. It's all about how much you want to sacrifice. I agree, losing money only to have distro's and record shop make money is a real drag.

I did the calculatios, even if I pressed my 1500 copies at Curved Pressings and sold every one of em, I´d still be losing money. It´s not the pressing that is expensive (actually the price is very reasonable) it´s the shipping to Germany.

Very weird. A few of us in the U.S. manage our labels over in Europe, despite the shipping costs back and fourth over the pond there is still potential to make $500-1000 on a release if you sell all of it. I'd advise working with Curvepusher and Mpo.

There´s no real money to be made off it anyways, so who cares about winning or losing a few hundred euros.

That's the exact message I was trying to portray in my last post.

People should take a look at their record collection. Ever notice how some of the most professional looking and sounding vinyls happen to be a bit more successful sales-wise? While this correlation isn't always there, every little bit counts and it really shows when someone picks up a record at the shop. That's just my personal opinion.

[DJAmok]

Yes, it really is true the one´s sticking out are about 75% curve pusher and maybe 15% german and 10% french.

but like I said... I could be selling 4000, with the shipping costs and the price you get from german distributors and after paying the artists, I´d still lose money. Shipping is 250 pounds per 1000 records, that plus the price of the cutting and pressing is a bit more expensive as well. (I´ve pressed records for as cheap as 1000 Euro / 1000 pieces including the cut!)

[jonnyspeed]

Simple as this. I ain't ever gonna but Combat Skill if it continous to be so bad quality. When I was given a copy of #2 by somebody I just laughed and said no thanks - the reply = "I know, it makes my rig sound its ****ed - you mix it people walk off because of the distortion."

[jonnyspeed]

Yes, it really is true the one´s sticking out are about 75% curve pusher and maybe 15% german and 10% french.

but like I said... I could be selling 4000, with the shipping costs and the price you get from german distributors and after paying the artists, I´d still lose money. Shipping is 250 pounds per 1000 records, that plus the price of the cutting and pressing is a bit more expensive as well. (I´ve pressed records for as cheap as 1000 Euro / 1000 pieces including the cut!)

Why do you have to use German distributors? You can press and distribute from the same country!

You can talk euro this, euro that. None of your releases have been worth 1 euro. I would happily pay £7.50 (UKP) = >10 euro if it was clear and punchy rather than just shit.

[DJAmok]

well, luckily opinions vary on that....

[Sunil]

I did the calculatios, even if I pressed my 1500 copies at Curved Pressings and sold every one of em, I´d still be losing money. It´s not the pressing that is expensive (actually the price is very reasonable) it´s the shipping to Germany..

Why don't you get a UK distributor to help ease the load then? Elektronik or someone?

[dtl]

You can talk euro this, euro that. None of your releases have been worth 1 euro. I would happily pay £7.50 (UKP) = >10 euro if it was clear and punchy rather than just shit.

Creative Critic here! Give this man a dallor!

Eric.[/quote]

[crime]

he cuts to laquer.
You are better off going to one of a number of german companies who do direct to metal mastering, which will end up, if you are based in germany, cheaper and better.

Direct to metal is rubbish, know people who have used it, and aparently the bass response is awful..
There are good cutting rooms in germany, Dubplates + Mastering in Berlin springs to mind, not sure of the names of others, but I'm sure there's a few about...

And RE: Distribution from the uk, what's the point when you're shipping straight back to mainland europe, and getting less money per unit?... I would have thought if you're German, german distribution with good export contacts would be best. you'll get more money per unit in the territory that you'll sell the most records in (i.e. germany)

Bottom line is, you don't make any money out of records until you've done at least 800 units, possibly even more if you're on a P+D.

[gunjack]

"crimeBottom line is, you don't make any money out of records until you've done at least 800 units, possibly even more if you're on a P+D.

yup.

[The Overfiend]

You can talk euro this, euro that. None of your releases have been worth 1 euro. .

A tad bit harsh man. ease up please.

[jonnyspeed]

was a tad. sorry

[h.a.r.d.s.i.g.n.a.l]

well, luckily opinions vary on that....

haha....capital...

it's class vs. ass right here on the blackout network....stay tuned... :clap: