Seriously Hard German Techno...

[dirty_bass]

Erm, direct to metal is the best way you can cut. You lose less quality in the reproduction process, because laquer degrades and is effected by temperature DMM can also be a louder cut due to less restrictions than vinyl with the material.. DMM all the way if the cutters know their job.

And I have just been to my distributers to pick up my promo`s.
I got a ton of this distorted schranz, and got back to the studio and began to go through everything to pick out the playa`s.

Lots of Kremer, wittekind, bittshift, combat skill, LFR, expanded, overdrive etc. It took me an hour to go through this stuff, and it all sounded the same.

Some of the production is admittedly, quite well carried out, but there is more to techno than oompah oompah, boom-tish, boom-tish, rise in dynamic during break aaaaaaand boom-tish boom-tish.
It became a bit obvious as to how things were going when my missus popped her head round the door to say "how many times are you going to play that same record?", when I had played about 12.

I try to understand all music, but really I think the schranz thing needs an injection of something to knock it out of it`s current locked groove

[davethedrummer]

i have this argument with a certain producer i work with all the time.
i reckon distortion does not make things sound hard
i reckon it just makes the mix sound "fuzzy" and the more distortion you use the more fuzzy and unclear things get.

clarity in the mix and ideas and arrangement of your music wll make things sound hard and essentially give it that energy.

i'm not saying i don't ever use distortion but i try to only use it when necessary to create that tough effect
i very rarely use it on kiks or hi hats 'cos that just sounds shit imo.

but i've been thinking all this for a while about hard techno in general.

it's just that a lot of it really isn't doing it for me any more
i just think we need some new ideas and to be honest i'm getting really sick of the know it all attitude everyone seems to have about techno these days and the strong opinions without compromise.

i don't want to paint it all black
but at the moment i'm looking for more musical things and funkier things
so hard banging stuff is just irrelevant to me

the odd one maybe but that's it.

you know as an after thought,

what ever happened to making MUSIC? not just turning out TRAX

i think thats where the difference lies between old and new skool

[Drago]

I just wanted to add a few words, without sounding like I am getting into any arguments or taking anyone's side.....here goes....

I read what Mark said in the beginning and agree to an extent that some of the Harder Techno (schranz if you will) that is coming out of late is very similar and does not have much "soul" to it. But there must be a market for it otherwise it would not be released.....I think that if you don't like it pass it up and someone else will buy it I am sure.

I also feel that it is better to have a couple of tracks produced on a poorer quality vinyl (like Combat Skill, and some of the other newer labels coming out of Germany) than not have them produced at all due to the cost to the person releasing them. With all the equipment we are able to obtain now, is it not possible to use the EQ's or some other device linked to your mixer to soften the sound slightly ? I think it is, and you could spend a few minutes listening to one of these "poorly cut" tracks, and spend a further few minutes working out how you can play with the EQ to make it more "Listener Friendly" instead of just passing up on the track because you know that it wasn't mastered/cut in a certain place. What about all the dub plates and cuts that were being made back in the day when Curvepusher wasn't around....what was the sound quality like on those ? I'll bet if the sound quality wasn't all that good the DJ would have played around with the EQ to do exactly what I mentioned above - make it more "Listener Friendly".

I personally bought Combat Skill 2 due to the tracks on the B side, which I think are stonking tracks....but the A side doesn't do anything for me and does fall into that category of being hard for the sake of it. (In my eyes anyway, but probably not in the Producers eyes). I am grateful to the producers pushing out these tracks on these so called "poorer cuts", as we have an opportunity to hear some quality tracks which lets face it - would not be available to us if all these guys and gals only had one option to release them. :clap: :clap: :clap: Thank you.

On a final note, I have been playing around with some of the Jungle I used to mix a while back and they are by far nowhere near as well cut as some of the Techno I have in my box.....I still play them though ;) Hope I haven't babbled too much, and made no sense...which I probably have :lol:

[VOMATRON]

hey AMOK...i really like the sound of that new track! i heard a lot of your other stuff...didnt like it much...but with this one, you really did something mean...this gives me sorta the same feel as some of the andreas krämer(not kremer) releases, like nachtpsychose and the likes

soundds like youve really experimented a lot on this one, i like it a lot. keep going on, big respect from here...man this is some hard sh"#€""t :)

[VOMATRON]

hard as in the non-fuzzy wuzzy way...i guess since noone has given amok a comment on it is because they didnt feel like downloading a wav file?....well...people check i out thats all i can say, cause its sounding good

[DJ OCRAM]

:lol:

[The Overfiend]

:lol:

I'm definitely curious to your take on this situation based on the fact that your label was mentioned more than once.

[DJ OCRAM]

:lol:

I'm definitely curious to your take on this situation based on the fact that your label was mentioned more than once.

Well, that is a opinion not a fact!
Fact about my Label is that every csk release (including lot of re-presses of them) where sold out after few days,
and i have re-orders for every release, yet! (PS. 800 of CSK002 will be repressed in next weeks again ;))

and Fact about "German Schranz" is, that it booms!
Or why we are so successful?

Facts, If you like it, or not ;)

but i respect your opinion ;)

[gumpy green]

(hard) techno is about having a pallete of many styles from distortion/bleepy/melodic/just down right bang/whatever you want.

then you mix them with others to create your own sound.

so what if the production is just a loop with the odd filter...if thats what i want to drop at that point of my set to create "that feeling" in the club ill use it, no matter how easy it was to make...all i promise to do is to add my dj sound/mix to it.

its up to me as th dj to flip it in a way that IS unique.

ive nothing against crazy fuked up distortion(altho some is distorted a bit much IMO), i mix it with other non distoted shit to give it melody/groove etc.....

BUT listening to a whole set of distorted techno IS boring as fuk, so would be listening to a whole set of minimal shit.........

Use techno like a painter uses colours in his pallete.

And give these younger producer a little break.....ther young, still learning, and im sure in a few years will be better and discover new techniques.

And amok- that new shit is wicked.....hard but with some good thought...

I luv most forms of techno but i AM LUVIN the good shranz at the mo..

Take the "clubby baby" remixes(shranz)....now that is quality fuked up nonsence that send the tek heads BALLISTIK....more of that please..

[dirty_bass]

Yeah, Amok, I enjoyed that wav, the production was a little clearer, and some interesting breaks and stuff occurred. Nice Bassline.
But I still think, with this stuff you have so little room in the mix, you can`t really alter the swing of the beat. Cos if a sound gets too close to the kick within the pattern structure, it is over compressed.
So you end up locked to the oompah oompah boom-tish boomtish
Hard House does the same thing, oompah oompah.
Your production has come on in leaps and bounds sisnce your first release, and I hope it doesn`t seem like everyone is a having a dig, but I like a bit of this type of music, but in the same way that hard house trapped itself in a sound and died, this may happen to schranz. Maybe you could lead the way??? try breaking up the beat a bit, and changing the emphasis away from the marching on and off beat thing.

[HardtraX]

In my personal opinion, techno tracks by Adam Beyer, Liebing, Umek, Chris McCormack, Ben Sims etc. are overdone. It's too old now, it became boring over the years. :roll: Now, Schranz is a style which is a lot more dynamic - it's got more punch, more drive... I just love it! :love: Okay, so we are all young producers but we don't lack experience. I am producing techno music since 7 years now - it's my passion. I've listened to Glenn Wilson, Chris Liebing, Umek etc. before and the music's not bad (okay, except for Liebing 'cause he sucks) but now I need something new. In Germany, there's a split in the techno scene between those who like Schranz and those who don't but fortunately the Schranz scene is still growing (not only in Germany).

Oh yeah, I forgot: a whole set of crazy distorted techno isn't as boring as a set of looped percussive techno tracks...

[dirty_bass]

Oh yeah, I forgot: a whole set of crazy distorted techno isn't as boring as a set of looped percussive techno tracks...

And there lies the problem. People are blinkered and there are too many tunnel vision DJ`s.
Yes a set of looped percussion is boring, as is a set of schranz (crazy?), the secret to a good mix surely is a mix of styles, embracing the best elements from all the sub genre`s of techno.

[dtl]

Yes a set of looped percussion is boring, as is a set of schranz (crazy?), the secret to a good mix surely is a mix of styles, embracing the best elements from all the sub genre`s of techno.

And couple breaks and electro tuneage wouldnt hurt either ;)

Eric.

[gumpy green]

Oh yeah, I forgot: a whole set of crazy distorted techno isn't as boring as a set of looped percussive techno tracks...

And there lies the problem. People are blinkered and there are too many tunnel vision DJ`s.
Yes a set of looped percussion is boring, as is a set of schranz (crazy?), the secret to a good mix surely is a mix of styles, embracing the best elements from all the sub genre`s of techno.

yup...i just saw paul langley the at the weekend......just played hard techno all the way through with no breaks or flava/meldoy added..... was just boomboom all the way through, was boring me at times even tho i did like most of the tunes he was playing.....i was just thinking--"will you switch it up a little, please"........afterall when i go for a chinese i like to have a taste of everything not just a big bowl of lemon chicken....

have a techno banquette not just one dish. ;)

[h.a.r.d.s.i.g.n.a.l]

I also feel that it is better to have a couple of tracks produced on a poorer quality vinyl than not have them produced at all due to the cost to the person releasing them.

exactly what i was trying to say.....just an intelligent, lucid version.... :clap:

[dirty_bass]

[/quote]have a techno banquette not just one dish.

haha, spot on.

what ever happened to making MUSIC? not just turning out TRAX

i think thats where the difference lies between old and new skool

Now that is what I`m talkin about.
Wisdom from the man himself.

[dirty_bass]

oops

[*muci*]

shranz is something special ;) and in germany and all over the europe is very listened ;) or you love it or you don't, or you have the feeling for it or you don't, you like it hard and pumping or melodic and easy....
it's nice that you express your opinnion about the producers and the music which is beeing sold very good ;)
you have to have respect for other hard techno/techno/schranz.. and know how to criticize them and why you criticize them. they make their music just like you do, with soul and lots of feelings.some of the saying here like 'schranz is shit' and so on.....where do you want to get with this??!!

have respect and you will be respected ;)

CSK,artilery,friendly fire, insane rec. and so on.... have great productions out ;) :lol:

greets from germany :lol:

[The Overfiend]

If you slow some down to 135 there's a four four beat a hat and static.
Real Creative guys. :dontevengothere:

[dirty_bass]

or you love it or you don't, or you have the feeling for it or you don't, you like it hard and pumping or melodic and easy

it`s not that black and white. I tend to embrace all music types. I like it both hard and pumping AND melodic and easy. I also like a bit of schranze (fast and distorted). But c`mon fellas mix it up a bit.