How do YOU get your badass techno kick drums?

[SlavikSvensk]

just curious what programs/equipment/techniques people use.

i tend to start with a sample of an analog kick in reason, add parametric eq, sub bass and compression in cubase. fool with all those things, and occassionally add a smidgen of small room reverb, but not so much that it gets muddy...

[dirty_bass]

I try to do something different each time.
I use a variety of sounds to start. I mix analogue, soft synth, with samples of accoustic kicks for mid range punch.
I like attack particularly by waldorf.
Judisious use of eq, and compression, and sometimes some really savage limiting as well.
Anything goes really, the rules are there to be broken.

[BloodStar]

I've been wondering about this too, how to get the punchy kick drum. Do you send all sounds into one group channel, then?

[professor]

I mainly use the exs24mkII (logic's sampler) and layer bunches of kick samples on top of each other and very the sample length/start/reverse/invert/etc. till i think i got something that works for the track.
I often use a synth set up for a bass sound with a bit of resonance, and on another track a very slight noise hat with quick attack, and on another a bit of mid range bump...then sample them together, add slight distortion/eq/compression/whatever and resample...whatever my fancy at the time.
the sky's the limit.
It can be fun to experiment with kick sounds, but when I sit down to write a loop, i can often get caught up in the details of sound when all I need to do is get caught up in writing the groove.

[Basil Rush]

compression is very important. even a touch of it transforms a kick drum from flabby to tight and punchy. sometimes things sound sweeter if you cut some bottom mid 400-800hz (ish) then compress ...

maxbass from waves can make a very full and middy sound if you want that ... often a bit too much though you can also add the bottom octave with it too (use the dies bassum preset for a starter) ...

filtering or eqing out most of what's going on below about 30-60hz can often help too. probably best done before the compressor though if it sounds better the other way around then whatever ...

make sure your compressor release time is set such that the compressor returns to 0db gain reduction inbetween each kick otherwise your first kick drum will sound different from all the others ...

you probably don't need the gain reduction meters to be reading much more than 6-8db of cut or so normally otherwise the attack of the sound will be way in your face. (at 6db of reduction the attack will start about twice as loud as the rest of the kick sound ...)

also make sure you have the kick as audio in your track even if it starts off in a software sampler you probably want to record one and then move it around with the mouse till it's dead on the beat. check that the phase of the kick is good, that the inital peak is in the up direction (speaker cones slapping you in the face) and that it's a good attack, edit any crap off the start ...

if you are layering kick drums timing differences can make the sound completely different - if you are triggering from a sampler layered kicks will sound different every time - this will suck for repeative fast beats so either record loads of different ones and pick the one you like or record the layers seperately and sort them out on some audio tracks where there won't be any timing issues.

[SlavikSvensk]

what's the deal with maxxbass? only comes in the native bundle? i've been using baxxpander and sub-bass by steinberg, though they leave something to be desired.

can you get maxxbass standalone?

[FILTERZ]

compression is very important. even a touch of it transforms a kick drum from flabby to tight and punchy. sometimes things sound sweeter if you cut some bottom mid 400-800hz (ish) then compress ...

maxbass from waves can make a very full and middy sound if you want that ... often a bit too much though you can also add the bottom octave with it too (use the dies bassum preset for a starter) ...

filtering or eqing out most of what's going on below about 30-60hz can often help too. probably best done before the compressor though if it sounds better the other way around then whatever ...

make sure your compressor release time is set such that the compressor returns to 0db gain reduction inbetween each kick otherwise your first kick drum will sound different from all the others ...

you probably don't need the gain reduction meters to be reading much more than 6-8db of cut or so normally otherwise the attack of the sound will be way in your face. (at 6db of reduction the attack will start about twice as loud as the rest of the kick sound ...)

also make sure you have the kick as audio in your track even if it starts off in a software sampler you probably want to record one and then move it around with the mouse till it's dead on the beat. check that the phase of the kick is good, that the inital peak is in the up direction (speaker cones slapping you in the face) and that it's a good attack, edit any crap off the start ...

if you are layering kick drums timing differences can make the sound completely different - if you are triggering from a sampler layered kicks will sound different every time - this will suck for repeative fast beats so either record loads of different ones and pick the one you like or record the layers seperately and sort them out on some audio tracks where there won't be any timing issues.

.



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[Basil Rush]

dunno about maxbass standalone, we've got the gold bundle and it came with it. does fantastic things to bass guitars too.

[acidchild]

I use samples, along with the TBS DRM2 minisyncussion. Compression is the key to a punchy sound. Also, i've found that mastering using T-Racks give tracks a very nice full, punchy sound. YMMV though.

[MARKEG]

compression is very important. even a touch of it transforms a kick drum from flabby to tight and punchy. sometimes things sound sweeter if you cut some bottom mid 400-800hz (ish) then compress ...

maxbass from waves can make a very full and middy sound if you want that ... often a bit too much though you can also add the bottom octave with it too (use the dies bassum preset for a starter) ...

filtering or eqing out most of what's going on below about 30-60hz can often help too. probably best done before the compressor though if it sounds better the other way around then whatever ...

make sure your compressor release time is set such that the compressor returns to 0db gain reduction inbetween each kick otherwise your first kick drum will sound different from all the others ...

you probably don't need the gain reduction meters to be reading much more than 6-8db of cut or so normally otherwise the attack of the sound will be way in your face. (at 6db of reduction the attack will start about twice as loud as the rest of the kick sound ...)

also make sure you have the kick as audio in your track even if it starts off in a software sampler you probably want to record one and then move it around with the mouse till it's dead on the beat. check that the phase of the kick is good, that the inital peak is in the up direction (speaker cones slapping you in the face) and that it's a good attack, edit any crap off the start ...

if you are layering kick drums timing differences can make the sound completely different - if you are triggering from a sampler layered kicks will sound different every time - this will suck for repeative fast beats so either record loads of different ones and pick the one you like or record the layers seperately and sort them out on some audio tracks where there won't be any timing issues.

this is really well described basil. all i would really add to this is experiment sidechaining the kick and bass - also turn up parts of the freq on both kick and bass on a highq and mess to find a nice sitting point. i also like to have two potential sub bass lines from the start - can be really useful when getting confused about what sounds good ie flick between them both, sometimes i'll even end up using both together. oh and that waves soundshaper on the subs proves useful in cubase for me to mess with pitch on audio bass.

[SlavikSvensk]

so here's an ancillary question...

...what source do you guys all start with? lately i've been using a combination of microtonic kicks, 909 samples, and kicks made on reason's maelstrom.

[dirty_bass]

I generally use anything BUT a 909. To try to get away from that sound.
Drumatic, Kawai, Attack, Accoustic stuff, or I make my own with soft synths.

[Ritzi Lee]

analog kick with analog extreem compression.
and after that blow up the EQ, or just volume.
Little bit reverb and chorus on it....

[SlavikSvensk]

i tend to layer kicks and mess with them as multisamples too. sometimes it just sounds terrible, but sometimes really big...

[DJZeMig_L]

More and more I tend 2 go with a "standard" kick.. then when I got my basic groove, I'll flick thru a load of Kick I've collected over the years, then tweak'em a bit... the more I work the more I realise it's all in the mix/ balance/ eq/ comp!

my 2 cents,


Z

[tioneb]

hmm to me the 909 kick has a lot of groove. not really punchy , but very very funky... i use it in tracks that dont need strong bassdrums

as a general fact, i never compress my bassdrums, that just sounds more "old school" .. then of course its harder to eq it so that it sounds good.. the main problem i have is that the bassddrums im doing totally lack of power on a weak sound system, because of the lack of compression

but the thing is : are techno tracks made to be played in parties and big soundsystems, or to be listened at home ??

[DJZeMig_L]

def. big system :)

ehehheh

Z

[massplanck]

just curious what programs/equipment/techniques people use.

Drop stuff and sample it.

Me latest tune has a big rubber plastic fish-clock (not mine) being dropped onto a glass table (not mine either) as a kick drum.

also. who the said every kick drum should be the same in your tunes.
I've done one with 200 different kick sounds as my 'kick'.

Kick stuff and sample it.

[SlavikSvensk]

also. who the said every kick drum should be the same in your tunes.

yeah, that's why i started this thread...to see how people think about this differently!

[dirty_bass]

200 different kick sounds as your kick.

I would be interested in hearing that.

Sounds doubtful to me.