Mixing Hardstyle

[Hakka]

Anyone else get frustrated at the some what bizarre layouts of hardstyle tunes? I mean the first section of tunes is often not heard as its being used during the mixing process, yet hard style producers seem to go out of their way to have intros that consist of small and weak sounding pecrussion before a huge shift in to a massive kick drum and bass. It makes smooth flowing mixing very very awkward...

With Hard Trance I can hear the pattern and without thinking and cue it off at the right timing points. I find with hard style tunes I have to learn each tracks specific mixing points much more closely than I've ever needed to with trance. I mean take Ultrasonic - H.C.M.F on Subway... what a damn well awkward track to time it nicely. A very very short intro and suddnely BOOM BOOM. It's not the actual mixing of it which is a problem, its just irratating to me personally as I love to have mixes that cross over at the breakdowns with a smooth and well timed shift of the bass eq on the mixer. Hard Style mixing seems to be tailored to the world cutting out tracks before the next one kicks in... I HATE HOW THOSE MIXES SOUND! It gives a stop and start feel to the mix and I've always felt mixing is about blending tracks together. I've always admired M-Zone's mixing style because he brings tracks in so early that it keeps the beats following.

Admittedly, two hardstyle beats on top of each other can sound a bit cluttered or wierd. But that's where the eq's come in to sort that out. I mean if you take Tamok - Resistance is Futile on Subway, this track is good example of hard style that is far easier to apply smoother mixing to.

Am I just being rigid because of the way I go about mixing or is hard style producers designing tunes so that your supposed to bring out the other tune before the next one kicks in?

Just curious to what you lot think!

[Barely Human]

Yes, i think they are producing tracks so that you have to play most of their tune. But ive never found a trackt hat i cant get around. DJ freindly vinyl pisses me off to be honest. I like a challenge, and i think that dj's should work for their money. I mean, come on. Most of the producers making the tracks are earning **** all compared to a lot of the dj's playing them. Why should a talented producer make a track dj freindly. just so an aparently "talented" dj, doesnt have a hard time mixing it. To be honest its pretty pathetic if a dj's complains that a track is hard to mix, especially with dance genres.

[Yoshimitsu]

I agree that hardstyle is harder to mix but I mix it differently to u. I usually try and time it so that wen the tune im bringing in kicks in, it coincides with a drop in feel of the other tune eg. after the main melody/screechy sounds :lol: This way just as the tune is about to wind down *bang* comes in a new bassline Sometimes you have to do the cutting out b4 it kicks in thing tough depending on the tune

[Hakka]

I know what you mean and I'd be the first person to say that tracks shouldn't be made to mix friendly specifically - part of the fun of mixing is the challenge! What I'm saying is that hard style tunes are more aimed at a style of mixing that is LESS about blending two tracks together and more about blagging breakdowns to quickly cut out a track and leave with a pause before the 2nd track kicks in, - or this is what I'm hearing when I listen to most hard style sets.

Like I say, not complaining that the hard style tracks are too hard to mix as at the end of the day they aren't, I'm saying that the cunning and blending part of mixing that I find most creative and fun is a bit lost with hard style for the reasons I mentioned.

Top and bottom of me posting this is because I hate it when a mix involves a track being cut out quickly leaving a pause before a new beat comes in. I love the sound of a mix that uses both tunes elements to cross over and keep the beats flowing... a mix that comes across as one track evolving in to the next one, as opposed to sounding like it was supposed to break down and stop for the next one to hammer in after a pause.

[Yoshimitsu]

hakka m8 i dont mix hardstyle anything like you say you hear except occasionally wen it suits the tune

[Hakka]

No I appreciate that, I'm not suggesting everyone does... but I've been listening to loads and loads of sets from holland and too many of the mixes I was hearing were un-inspiring and obvious mixes due to tracks being cut out leaving a long pause before the new beat to come in.

It isn't bad mixing at all, its perfectly timed, right volumes and neatly done. Problem is that to me (the listener) I hear an obvious break up in the music and jump between two records.

Maybe I'm just being picky and funny about what I like and dislike, but my point was about the design of tracks being done to suit a style of mixing, perhaps?

[Yoshimitsu]

No I appreciate that, I'm not suggesting everyone does... but I've been listening to loads and loads of sets from holland and too many of the mixes I was hearing were un-inspiring and obvious mixes due to tracks being cut out leaving a long pause before the new beat to come in.

It isn't bad mixing at all, its perfectly timed, right volumes and neatly done. Problem is that to me (the listener) I hear an obvious break up in the music and jump between two records.

Maybe I'm just being picky and funny about what I like and dislike, but my point was about the design of tracks being done to suit a style of mixing, perhaps?

Ive also noticed that about dutch sets they all mainly mix like that, cuttiing the tune out wen the other goes to a small break etc.

But, even if tunes are desiged to be mixes like that it still shouldnt limit ppl in how they mix.

Have you ever heard one of my cds m8? If not ill let u av a copy of my next one so u can see a different style to the one you describe ;)

[Hakka]

yeah please mate, I'd love to hear a cd of yours. Shall I PM my address? :)

[djstride]

i like the quiet start then huge shift in bass cos you get to time it right, wait for the little sampley bit inbetween 2 bars then spin them kills.

speaking of which there will finally be a new mix from me this week, its freaking ace hehe

[Yoshimitsu]

yeah please mate, I'd love to hear a cd of yours. Shall I PM my address? :)

Yeh pm your addy m8 I should be doin it sometime this week

[Voorheez]

The reason hardstyle is hard to mix is because the production is in most cases pretty amateur, so they don't follow any kind of set pattern that tracks need to do to be mixed properly. Too many people just make up their own structure which leads to none of them fitting together in sequence.

Hardstyle now needs to be mixed like hardcore, when at first it could be mixed like hard trance or even trance. I guess it comes down to how you prefer mixing - short and choppy (think Mondello) or long and smooth (think Dana). Personally I like long and smooth, so I don't get on too well with bad layouts/sequences.

[Hakka]

The reason hardstyle is hard to mix is because the production is in most cases pretty amateur, so they don't follow any kind of set pattern that tracks need to do to be mixed properly. Too many people just make up their own structure which leads to none of them fitting together in sequence.

Hardstyle now needs to be mixed like hardcore, when at first it could be mixed like hard trance or even trance. I guess it comes down to how you prefer mixing - short and choppy (think Mondello) or long and smooth (think Dana). Personally I like long and smooth, so I don't get on too well with bad layouts/sequences.

Dana is definitley the mixing style I aspire to reach...

[Louk]

I like short + choppy

Louk

[DJ SPUDIE]

Depends on what track you are mixing.
Some tunes you may work them out so that they fit perfectly to make a long and sly mix. ;)
Others (hardstyle) so that its Bang Bang Bang all the way

[Andy__C]

was talking about this with a mate the other day - it is quite hard to pick up a pile of random hardstyle tunes and go play a perfect set as there are loadsa breaks n'stuff that are off timed with other records......

there is not set formulae as such for the construction - which makes it harder for the dj..... but better as an individual song IMHO


For me though - the breaks and when the beatnbass pound back in hard are one of the appealing things of Hardstyle - I feckin love it when there's an awesome beat that just slams in........ ok - some people find it stop&starty.......having many breakdowns in one track..... but I actually prefer it - gets the adrenalin going for defo!!!

[Yoshimitsu]

Yeh you cant beat it wen a hardstyle whacks in

[Hakka]

Oh I love it when a beat slams in, just feel its better when it slams in time of the breakdown of the tune your mixing out of.

[DJ SPUDIE]

Oh I love it when a beat slams in, just feel its better when it slams in time of the breakdown of the tune your mixing out of.

Yep innit :clap:

[K Front]

I prefer all the tracks to be structured different, bigger challange and more of an interesting mix. Thats what p*ssed me off about hard house, its just too predictable.

This way every mix can be unique and unexpected.

[Busho]

Im in a bad mood wit mixin at the mo!