A winge of sorts.

[dirty_bass]

This place used to be fantastic as a great place for learning and critical disection.
All I seem to see now is the following comments.

Great tune mate!!!!
Very Professional!!!

etc

When really there`s a lot of stuff that`s not pro at all.
Now I know it`s a bit moany, but no one seems to be learning anything much.

there used to be a fairly rapid learning curve in this place with peoples productions getting critiqued and then coming back with noticable improvement.

I don`t see that any more. It seems like a lot of peeps are treading water, and meerly posting for props.

So yeah, it is me moaning, and pissing on the chips again, but it`s about time there was a good critique process back in here, and some kind of drive for improvement.

I don`t really bother commenting at all about productions in here any more, cos most people get offended at production critique, and it seems all the old school people (in BOA temrs) who used to help out by doing the same, feel the same as me (ie DSP, X5, Jay, Scot etc).

Now I`m not getting involved with this side of the forum any more, but c`mon peeps, there needs to be a proper discussion in here about production.
Artist communities are there to encourage improvement, and say the harsh things needed, that your mates can`t.

[Elvio Neto]

i agree with you


but many people dont have Knowledge to make a good critic


i totally understand you ,

one day ze migl give a review of one of my tracks in his forum, the way he tell me the errors on the track and what i shoud improve was amazing and very constructive , thats what whe want when whe post tracks on foruns

the xperts on the forum have to be more active :)


i allways like to see your reviews dirty bass , i hope you can review my future tracks

[eyeswithoutaface]

agree 100% mate, which is exactly why i dont post my comments anymore, it's just not worth it, as some people just are not as humble as they like to think they are, and genuinely helpful, critical analysis just seems to offend some people as it goes in one ear and out of the other

so i stick to giving comments on tracks and music people actually ask me too, and gladly too. I also get any critique im after in this way too as if i posted on here i can kinda tell i wont get in depth feedback which i strive for, which i get from people like yourself on msn and what not

i still however check most of the stuff posted here, and there are a few people who have brilliant production so its good to see some people still learning and cracking on

the production forum is where i get's most of me help these days

[The Overfiend]

Then do something about it, critique people then. If you don't like the way something is then do your part to change it. Instead of complaining about it. If it's so much better to get critique on Msn then do what you gotta do there why shit on what goes on around here, like it is a crime to like what you hear, everyone hears different flaws. If you think something needs critique around here then open your mouth and say so, you guys have no issues voicing your opinions elsewhere.

[eyeswithoutaface]

Then do something about it, critique people then. If you don't like the way something is then do your part to change it. Instead of complaining about it. If it's so much better to get critique on Msn then do what you gotta do there why shit on what goes on around here, like it is a crime to like what you hear, everyone hears different flaws. If you think something needs critique around here then open your mouth and say so, you guys have no issues voicing your opinions elsewhere.

literaly couldnt of scripted it better

[The Overfiend]

literaly couldnt of scripted it better

Oh you mad cause I'm stylin' on you.
Goin' off like a firecracker?
Scott you ain't got the powder to get me crackin' anymore homeboy.
But the dedication to Brad thread is great promo for him, Golf Clap.

[eyeswithoutaface]

Oh you mad cause I'm stylin' on you.
Goin' off like a firecracker?
Scott you ain't got the powder to get me crackin' anymore homeboy.
But the dedication to Brad thread is great promo for him, Golf Clap.

well of course, anyone who puts in effort and make's noticable improvements like Brad deserves a heads up for sure

[dirty_bass]

Then do something about it, critique people then. If you don't like the way something is then do your part to change it. Instead of complaining about it. If it's so much better to get critique on Msn then do what you gotta do there why shit on what goes on around here, like it is a crime to like what you hear, everyone hears different flaws. If you think something needs critique around here then open your mouth and say so, you guys have no issues voicing your opinions elsewhere.

I simply don`t have the time.

I am busy with commercial mastering work, as well as reviewing stuff for the radio show, and running personal critiques via msn and email.

I listen to a lot of what gets posted here, but to be honest, to critically analyse ONE track takes at least 15-20 minutes of listening, then you have to write about it.

I know you yourself don`t like critique, so this is the main drive of your commenting, but I`ve seen so many other people benefit from this part of the forum through critique, and go on to be amazing professional producers, it`s a shame for that to stop happening, as really, that was the best thing about this whole forum.

I myself benefitted from it endlessly in the early days, and did what I could over the following years to feed back the love, but all these newbies get offended too easily.

If you want props, go to your mates, they will allways tell you your tune is good, no matter how shit it is, but this place used to be great for objectivity.
I don`t see that so much now. And I see nothing wrong with pointing that out.

All this "only make positive comments" is subjective. I am commenting positively in my eyes. By pointing out negatives you can surely inspire people to make a positive change.

If it was only smiles and kisses in the world, then we would have none of the great art we have now.

[The Overfiend]

I simply don`t have the time.

I am busy with commercial mastering work, as well as reviewing stuff for the radio show, and running personal critiques via msn and email.

I listen to a lot of what gets posted here, but to be honest, to critically analyse ONE track takes at least 15-20 minutes of listening, then you have to write about it.

I know you yourself don`t like critique, so this is the main drive of your commenting, but I`ve seen so many other people benefit from this part of the forum through critique, and go on to be amazing professional producers, it`s a shame for that to stop happening, as really, that was the best thing about this whole forum.

I myself benefitted from it endlessly in the early days, and did what I could over the following years to feed back the love, but all these newbies get offended too easily.

If you want props, go to your mates, they will allways tell you your tune is good, no matter how shit it is, but this place used to be great for objectivity.
I don`t see that so much now. And I see nothing wrong with pointing that out.

All this "only make positive comments" is subjective. I am commenting positively in my eyes. By pointing out negatives you can surely inspire people to make a positive change.

If it was only smiles and kisses in the world, then we would have none of the great art we have now.

My main drive for commenting was saying don't say anything about it if yourself do not plan on doing a thing about it. As far as critique is concerned I welcome critique but only when it comes from a sincere and helpful place, I've seen how cliques around here can swoop on someone like vultures looking for a kill. Myself I do plan on posting tracks here for objective feedback. Let it be known though that the same tracks your mates have ripped apart, certain huge name producers have absolutely loved and played in big festivals. so it's one of those things where you weigh it out, who do I listen to, the one who is out there making moves? Or the one who is over critical for the sake of standing on a platform.

[SlavikSvensk]

constructive criticism: comments that a) point out flaws to be corrected and b) encourage the creator to improve the work in question.

leave out a) and all you have his mindless boosterism. leave out b) and you're just pissing on someone.

seems simple, really. a little praise for what works, suggestions on how to fix what doesn't.

i never post my sh*t on here but if i did, i wouldn't want someone to just say how great it was.

[The Overfiend]

Don't be facetious Scot seriously If you don't like something stop complaining and do something about it, instead of crying like children about how f*cked up something is.

[eyeswithoutaface]

Don't be facetious Scot seriously If you don't like something stop complaining and do something about it, instead of crying like children about how f*cked up something is.

ahh right, i must of got confused then when i read that, obviously not aimed at me....

you may have got the point but you've done nothing except back up the initial post. This is just a discussion about giving constructive crit and your off like a firecracker as they say

as for Brad, i was actually praising him there, and its not about know's what. It's about what is evident, and i fail to believe he hasnt gained any help from here.

Just like us all

and steve wishes he was my Jedi Master. And i mean, wishes.

[eyeswithoutaface]

firstly, i wasnt complaining. I was in agreement with someone, the initial post came from steve...

secondly, not at all, but once again the whole point of steve's initial post has gone way over your head mate. Undeniably, the whole root of the post is steve's obvious frustration at the fact he's tried to do something about it, many, many times, as have myself, Chris, Steve (Casual) among others, but to pretty much no avail. I'd personally have to use Brad as a good example of someone however who has got his head around constructive criticism as i think its fair to say when he was first posting tracks he didnt always take the critique in the best way, but once he realised it's valuable help and started to take it on board, particulary help steve gave him, then this how helped alot and his production has clearly come on a whole lot, obviously this is mainly down to his hard work but undoubtedly these things play a part

it doesnt matter who said the initial comment but this place is alot different to how it used to be in terms of the help that can be mustered. Im far too busy these days unfortunately to spend as much time here as i'd like to actually make a difference, but it would be nice to think there was some fresh blood coming through who thought on similiar wavelenghts when it came to production

[The Overfiend]

See that's your problem no one was f*ckin talking to you to begin with, and you chimed in on what I said, I got the point in what Steve was sayin' homeboy. I wasn't even talking to you, so go do something with yourself instead of trying to sniff a carcass everytime I post in disagreement with your jedi master. As far as Brad is concerned I think it's his dilligence and practice over time that has been his benefactor, I should know.

[The Overfiend]

That's what I tell Brad Daily.

[eyeswithoutaface]

That's what I tell Brad Daily.

whose Brad Daily?

[BRADLEE]

Well, I'm quite flattered be half the topic at hand here. While I do agree that I've definitely learned from people being constructive with giving me advice; I also think that music is a constant learning process for everyone. Steve..DB he has helped me quite a bit with mixdown especially back when I first started posting on BOA. Although my ear remains less critical than his still because he has loads more experiance with mastering and engineering music in general. So I can't always offer the same level of advice that some people can.

But I also think sometimes when people post critique...it's sometimes just opinion. Because we all hear and see things from a differant point of view. One persons opinion will varie from another. One might say needs more Bass, one might say...needs more highs about the very same tune.

I think a persons views on mastering is a matter of ones perceptions in what they want to hear too. Frankly if all things were mastered exactly the same value, wouldn't that make music overall less dynamic? Because maybe one person who writes a tune will intend it to sound a certain way....want certain elements to stick out more than others, then somebody else might have a totally differant idea of what sound they wish to achieve. I think having that variation is kind of nice.

I mean obviously if something is shit it's shit....No doubt about that. And truly while I do think mastering and mixdown is extremely important...I think some focus too much on that rather than the content of their music. Which is sad to me frankly.....

I mean...you can have the clearest sound of a pin dropping on the ground, but does that make it good music?

[The Overfiend]

Well, I'm quite flattered be half the topic at hand here. While I do agree that I've definitely learned from people being constructive with giving me advice; I also think that music is a constant learning process for everyone. Steve..DB he has helped me quite a bit with mixdown especially back when I first started posting on BOA. Although my ear remains less critical than his still because he has loads more experiance with mastering and engineering music in general. So I can't always offer the same level of advice that some people can.

But I also think sometimes when people post critique...it's sometimes just opinion. Because we all hear and see things from a differant point of view. One persons opinion will varie from another. One might say needs more Bass, one might say...needs more highs about the very same tune.

I think a persons views on mastering is a matter of ones perceptions in what they want to hear too. Frankly if all things were mastered exactly the same value, wouldn't that make music overall less dynamic? Because maybe one person who writes a tune will intend it to sound a certain way....want certain elements to stick out more than others, then somebody else might have a totally differant idea of what sound they wish to achieve. I think having that variation is kind of nice.

I mean obviously if something is shit it's shit....No doubt about that. And truly while I do think mastering and mixdown is extremely important...I think some focus too much on that rather than the content of their music. Which is sad to me frankly.....

I mean...you can have the clearest sound of a pin dropping on the ground, but does that make it good music?

Golf Clap, douchebag.

[BRADLEE]

Golf Clap, douchebag.

Is that regular or spring fresh Scented

[dirty_bass]

But I also think sometimes when people post critique...it's sometimes just opinion. Because we all hear and see things from a differant point of view. One persons opinion will varie from another. One might say needs more Bass, one might say...needs more highs about the very same tune.

I think a persons views on mastering is a matter of ones perceptions in what they want to hear too. Frankly if all things were mastered exactly the same value, wouldn't that make music overall less dynamic? Because maybe one person who writes a tune will intend it to sound a certain way....want certain elements to stick out more than others, then somebody else might have a totally differant idea of what sound they wish to achieve. I think having that variation is kind of nice.

I mean obviously if something is shit it's shit....No doubt about that. And truly while I do think mastering and mixdown is extremely important...I think some focus too much on that rather than the content of their music. Which is sad to me frankly.....

I mean...you can have the clearest sound of a pin dropping on the ground, but does that make it good music?

Hmm youdon`t really understand mixing and mastering if you can say this.
It`s fairly obvious when elements are badly eq`d or too loud, and isn`t really that subjective. Blatant problems are blatant problems.

It`s a good way of justifying bad production though ie
"dude, you bass and mid is really muddy, can`t hear a thing"

"oh I meant it to be that way"

"what, badly made?"

"no man, that`s my style!

"what, your style is shit-style?"

I mean obviously if something is shit it's shit....No doubt about that. And truly while I do think mastering and mixdown is extremely important...I think some focus too much on that rather than the content of their music. Which is sad to me frankly.....[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#000000][COLOR=silver]I mean...you can have the clearest sound of a pin dropping on the ground, but does that make it good music?

This final comment really holds no water in this day and age.

Everyone has access to the equipment now, pretty much, so there are far more "musicians" out there.

And quite frankly, judging by the amount of demos I get sent, there are many many many good techno musicians out there.

so making a "good tune" simply isn`t enough.

You need to make a good production as well to stand out above the mud heap.

I find it utterly pointless commenting about something as subjective as to wether a tune is good or not.
My good tune might be another persons cheese.
It really means nothing.

But you can be OBJECTIVE about production, because there are rules and trends and methods, and ways of working that you can effectively be right or wrong with. Especially on music designed for vinyl and soundsystems.

Even the Sex Pistols were well produced.

It`s not unachievable, to progress to a professional production level. It just requires work, research, and patience. Something lacking these days when most people can switch on fruity loops and make a tune in an hour, and then send it out expecting a release 2 hours later.


Sorry, I`m not really attacking you at all Brad, as you are someone who works hard on your production, and who genuinly has learned at improved.

Which is why I don`t understand your rather naieve comments.