RIP Acid Techno?

After listening to the Live Techno Bollocks CD's (DAVE the Drummer & DDR) I have decided that acid techno is starting to smell a bit funny (IMO).

The emotion, fu*ked up-ness (if thats a word), and general tranced out lushness is missing from all modern releases.

Ok, so it had to move with the times, but it would seem we're heading down the we must make everything harder & faster, or more hard dance route.

Bring back the spaced out sounds!

Acid techno, alive and kicking, or sat in the corner tripping?

Discuss...

PS: Dig out the Live Techno Bollocks CD's, the 1st Route CD mixed by Lawrie, Routemasters 1 - 10, Cats Eye & Typhoon on Prolekult, and of Drummers Boscaland releases, listen and tell me thats not the sound your really lusting after you crusty acid freaks! :)

I keep reading how techno has headed back to its routes by going minimal to gain popularity again, well acid techno needs to do more drugs ands get messy!

PPS: Do NOT tell me the old stuff only sounds better because the tunes bring back memorys of good times*

*aimed at Henry! :)

PPPS: Before I get called a hater, I'd just like to say that I still buy EVERY release from all the SUF Collectives labels, am still 110% supporting the artists, and still do like the sound, etc;

I'm just voicing an opinion, and judging by comments from others I'm not alone in these opinions.

i think your right up to an extent.

that extent being last year. up to jan 05 i think everything was getting a little stale.. since then there has been a serious turnaround. the labels are getting a lot more picky about what they release and bar the odd cabbage i think 2006 was quite a good year for acid..

but i do agree, things need to get more tripped out.. use the 303's as weapons in a track.. not just something that plays the main riff.

For sure.

Also, general trippyness and atmosphere needs to play a much bigger part again.

Can I also say, it's not just better use of the 303 thats required. Check out the Drummers live techno bollocks CD. Even the 303-less techno tracks are dark, moody and fu*ked up sounding.

Acid techno's about a feeling, an emotion IMO, and thats gone walkabout...

I really think someone needs to feed Lawrie some acid and lock him in his studio! :)

I think you guys have right...

And i don't understand why there aren't any labels with 100% old school acid techno sound.....

But good news are that there is for example guy called PAUL CORTEX and he have plans for releasing good acid stuff !!



Ans Si...what is with your pacman tune?i remember it was really good track...i hope it will be finally released!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 113

I don't understand why there aren't any labels with 100% old school acid techno sound.

---

Wah Wah was supposed to be the label for that, but it couldn't be further from that original sound IMO.

Not saying theyu are not good releases, but there not THAT style IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 113

Si...what is with your pacman tune?

---

It needs some work on the lay out. Just not had chance to see Log to sort it out yet. :)

for a bit there si i thought you were going to be the only one posting on this thread :)

barry is right (shit did i just admit that) 2006 was a great year for acid techno........

and as for all the artists who were making the acid techno a few years ago who dont make it so much any more...... well i think thats fair enough...... people should make whatever the fu*k they want...... tbh if you keep making the same style of music for a long period of time (and also prob playing it week in week out) you would prob get a bit tired of the sound and want to try something different....

like you si, i wish there were more frequent acid techno releases...... for a while a few online record shops had an acid techno section..... now i only can think of banging tunes' acid section which gets a new release every other week or so.........

maybe another way of looking at it is - if people who were making acid techno are not making it any longer then go and try to make it yourself and if you try hard enough for long enough and get as much help as you can then i'm sure you're bound to come up with something good eventually...... sort of d.i.y......

DIY's the plan my man!

i think the music coming out over the last 12 months has been really good on the whole, certainly on the up from the year before. 303 based acid techno doesnt seem to be going anywhere though. clusters on the other hand has made a amasing turn around, so its not out the question for the more acid based labels to do it.
303's have always gone in and out off fashion in dance music, there's certainly scope for the silver box in future tracks just has to be used in the right way

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ollie303

i think the music coming out over the last 12 months has been really good on the whole, certainly on the up from the year before. 303 based acid techno doesnt seem to be going anywhere though. clusters on the other hand has made a amasing turn around, so its not out the question for the more acid based labels to do it.
303's have always gone in and out off fashion in dance music, there's certainly scope for the silver box in future tracks just has to be used in the right way

---

that sounds about right.

I don't even think it's so much about the 303 use. It's the tracks lack of atmosphere.

More tunes like:

World War 303

One Last One

Akid Trax 6

Pump Department





OR ELSE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Si the Sigh

I don't even think it's so much about the 303 use. It's the tracks lack of atmosphere.

---

you need to get out more

Nah, I'd say further back than that.

I keep reading and hearing people saying techno is going full circle with this minimal thing, which is gaining huge following as we know.

If it's all going full circle, then acid techno wants to be going back to its routes. Getting dare I say it, maybe a bit more trancey again. With the quality of production in this day and age, you could create some seriously fat atmospheric tracks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aratron

you need to get out more

---

I'm out every weekend mate. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Si the Sigh

I'm out every weekend mate. :)

---

im really liking acid techno at the moment latest suf and powertools and wahwah are great.

Yea, same here. Like I said, i'm not saying the new releases are shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aratron

im really liking acid techno at the moment latest suf and powertools and wahwah are great.

---

nobody says they are bad...it's acid techno but it doesn't have that old soul...i believe it is possible to create a track that will have it...maby we just have to wait a little more....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 113

nobody says they are bad...it's acid techno but it doesn't have that old soul...i believe it is possible to create a track that will have it...maby we just have to wait a little more....

---

if its down to anything i think its because tracks are just written on shite music programs instead of on 909 and 303.

Well,i think there´s some kind of stagnation atm,don´t wanna take anything away from the latest releases,all good 4 sure,but few who knock me offa my feet.I hope that Skankadelic goes on releasing stuff,imo they represent Acid Techno as it should be,same goes for Mobile Dogwash when it comes to artists.Let´s hope for some really awesome productions in the very near future

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aratron

if its down to anything i think its because tracks are just written on shite music programs instead of on 909 and 303.

---

I don't agree with that. Computers can allow you to be much more creative IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by acidguru

Well,i think there´s some kind of stagnation atm,don´t wanna take anything away from the latest releases,all good 4 sure,but few who knock me offa my feet.I hope that Skankadelic goes on releasing stuff,imo they represent Acid Techno as it should be,same goes for Mobile Dogwash when it comes to artists.Let´s hope for some really awesome productions in the very near future

---

See Skankadelic was a real let down for me. Bar the DDR release towards the end of the label, they were all way too samey. It promised that old skool sound, but I felt a bit like it was Geezer after Geezer release during his quite naff tune period.

His productions lately have been quality mind you. The new 4X4 he's done with Julian Lib's shit hot, and so is the latest RAW. So maybe we'll be getting some quality acid from him soon.

Mobile Dogwash IMO pulled off one of the more amazing recent releases. Their remix of Hash Fudge was fu*king awesome. Real head fu*k breakdown, and when the 303 drops...Wooo! :) That was more like it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 113

it's acid techno but it doesn't have that old soul...

---

In it's most simple form, thats what i'm saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Si the Sigh

See Skankadelic was a real let down for me. Bar the DDR release towards the end of the label, they were all way too samey. It promised that old skool sound, but I felt a bit like it was Geezer after Geezer release during his quite naff tune period.

---

????

This is how it should be done: http://www.simonhazelgrove.com/darkl....aspx?fileid=2 http://files.filefront.com//;6803238;;/ Left-click both for some Acid Culture

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Si the Sigh

His productions lately have been quality mind you. The new 4X4 he's done with Julian Lib's shit hot, and so is the latest RAW. So maybe we'll be getting some quality acid from him soon.

---

I never really "got" 4x4 stuff. I don't think there's been a single tune on that label that I have even slightly liked, apart from the Funky Town remix. It all seems far too much like a mechanical loop, no real "tune" as such. Same with Pounding Grooves (although I admit I have only heard about 10 records off that label.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Si the Sigh

I don't even think it's so much about the 303 use. It's the tracks lack of atmosphere.

---

yeah i here ya si, i guess it had alot more trancey elements in which definetly brought alot of the atmosphere to it. sounds stupid but i think the poorer production may have alot to do with the magic of the old stuff, pretty ruff around the edges and less polished.

love the turn around cluster and max min have had tthe tunes they have been putting out have propa got me going again

was neva really a fan of maxmin but the last 6 or so have got it going on

i agree acid techno is getting a bit stale...the way forward is to find new ways of integrating the 303....and pushing the sound forward...although acid techno is not all about 303's...to me its a hypnotic/trancey/high tech/aggressive/in yer face sound...ive always loved acid music and will always use my tb303 and ABL 2.0 in my tracks...i think its time for the new wave of acid techno (pardon the pun) producers to step up to the controls and have their input....mutuate to survive (to coin a phraze (henrys right!))


by the way...check my stuff here...bump...

www.myspace.com/paulcortex

Acid Techno never die Si because still a lot heads lovin it.
Acid Techno its not only sub genre of techno music, its a massive subculture. Thats why it will be exist in our minds.
But i must agreed, acid techno lost somewhere their old school atmosphere, but there is second side of medal - we are going (i mean producers) somewhere where we never been before. Its a normal evolution. It makes this music still creative, its not boring and its a door for next generations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paulcortex

i think its time for the new wave of acid techno (pardon the pun) producers to step up to the controls and have their input....mutuate to survive (to coin a phraze (henrys right!))

---

Couldnt say better than paul here. Thats a way!!!!

Oh, I agree with the mutate and evolve to survive thing. Please don't get me wrong. But during a time when sales are low, why not turn to how the sound was in its peak? Like everyone keeps banging on about in thye techno forum with the minimal issue.

that hads it's time and place......a good place admittedly, but you can't recreate spontaneous events..........we're all getting older - how many young kids in techno will remember and spout on about current tunes which in their minds will be seminal and crucial? Si mutate into the future and produce the sound which you obviously think is missing from the scene, and bring on the new wave!

I see ot like this.
And don`t all you acid heads jump on me, Acid is my roots in temrs of techno.
It got me into techno, it got me into squat parties, and in fact I ended up putting on very large illegal acid techno raves myself in london because of it, as one of the soundsystems in United Systems (ahhh the good old days).
So I don`t hate it.

All good music is born out of passion and a wave of energy and emotion.
The early years of acid techno, all the guys were riding their wave, it was fresh, it was it`s own sound, and they were the kings of it.

Now 10 years down the road, do you really expect them to be able to make the same music with the same passion?
They gotta move on, if they had that creative and original spark in the first place then they will naturally move on and explore.

I think Henry`s new stuff is great, it`s not acid techno, but it`s great, and it`s his thing, and still spawns many imitators.
Same with Julian etc.

However, the acid labels have a legacy and need to stay within that niche in this market, so the acid releases especially on SUF seemed to get more and more derivative, and lacking passion, bar the odd cheeky comedy tune.

In a way, it looks to me, to keep sales up, elements of hard house and hard dance started getting absorbed.
So it was no longer it`s own thing. It wasn`t acid techno, it was a little brother of hard dance.

I think acid techno at it`s best was pretty stripped down music, with or without 303`s it tended to be reasonably minimal, but still very hard.

I don`t think Acid techno is dead, I think the creators have moved on, and find it difficult to inject passion into it when they do do it.
However, money and status probably comes into it too, people need to pay the rent etc.

I think some new bloody is needed.
At the mo, the only fresh talent I see on the labels is made by people who are mimicking their heroes anyway, so it still sounds derivative and hard dancey Maybe again this is a play safe option, I don`t know.

There`s got to be some messed up, twisted and disturbing producers out there making fresh acid techno.
The music used to be so disturbing at times, frenetic without being cheesy or predictable, it was a head**** unto itself without the aid of drugs.
Early route releases were just evil. Mushrooms on daleks etc, there was a definite psychadelic edge too, which seems to have vanished.
There was also a stark emotional beauty sometimes, look at Ice, by Carbine.
Cluster had it`s own, really messed up version of techno, which now seems to have blended in with the harder end of techno in general.
It no longer stands apart.

There must be a talent pool out there.
Dammit, they should be sending their stuff to SUF HQ.

the only person I`ve encountered on my travels who comes close to capturing the old spirit of acid techno, without being a rip off artist, is Paul Cortex.

I know the guy, and you pretty much can`t find anyone more into the spirit of that music than him.
If you see his name on a roster, and you like acid techno I seriously suggest you go see his live Pa.

Acid isn`t dead, it`s resting for a bit, waiting for the next generation of kids to get sicked with the emo fed clubscene, and the tightening laws against fun.

I`m sure their will be a new generation of free partis some time within the next few years to fual it.

@ dirtybass

im sorry but thats toss.

there are plenty of producers new & old doing the acid thing and doing it very well. the "oldschool" producers might not be as inventive as they were at one stage but they still come up with some classics now and again..

just look at route 59, suf 87, suf 84, suf 82 (to name but a few) & tunes like DTD's "hotwire" on infectious clearly show that acid CAN cross over into differant genres and still be outstanding.

to say that theres only 1 (new) producer doing it well is a serious insult to the likes of dogwash, KN, rhythm logistics, AP, myself or anyone else that is doing their thing (im not taking anything away from paul - he does it very well & is definitly up there).

but as with everything else the public vote with their feet and they're still voting acid..

I got into acid techno fully about 3/4 years ago, and that was from an old, old stay up forever mix, dunno what it was....

Iv been producing it for about 3 years now, and i base all my tracks upon the old style acid techno with elements of new production from new technology, a natural thing to happen in any style of music.

Now...my gripe is this.....this day in age everyone seems to be banging out tracks, some ****in wicked, and some totally shite.
Its so damm hard to get any where these days, theres ALWAYS someone telling you that your track;

a - needs more compression
b - more bass
c - less bass
d - mopre high end
e - less high end
f - more percussion
g - more variation
h - more girly vocals

the list goes on and ****ing on!
Theres too many people making too many tracks and too many people going on music courses like the one im on and turning anal about the whole music production thing.

I get a track down and if it sounds phat il keep making it, but i wont go and be anal about what should go where, wether to double up a kick at 5.23 mins or wether to make the bass 2db lower

I think this is what stops creativity in any music style.

Also, on another note, you have to remember that back in the day, theres wasnt logic pro or cubase xs blah blah blah...just a basic midi sequencer on a pc (if u were lucky) and hardware, which was hard to program in, (despite what folk say!) nowadays you can bash up a really professional sounding loop in literally minuits - no wonder things have gone wayyy to repetative!!

In short, after goin off on one - To make things sound as if they have progressed more - lets not try and stop creativity with knowledge ;)

i think vogelspeed maybe more what your after i love the acid on these tunes but i dont feel its pushing things forward and i need kicks. SUF i feel is top at the minute as said wahwah and even manxrippers had some nice acid more of the new sound that im loving. choci's chewns and alike have had their place but personally im not sure i want the future acid releases to have that feel, nice now and then to have an old school classics mix but bring on the future sounds quality tracks from start to finish not just 303's but they can be a bonus when used right, dont go over the top...


i dunno my two cents!

its good to see that this post is getting plenty of attention...especially as this is the acid forum!

...we are all very passionate about our music and should be all pulling together and trying to nurture and expand the scene...
acid techno certainly aint dead...and, yeah the old artists who influenced us all are probably sick to death of programming that 303 sequence...and with release catalogues like Henry,Guy,Chris et all have, its easy to see why they might be tired of the acid sound...im sure they still have plenty of good solid acid techno in em yet though! (Henry...why dont you release the stuff of the live techno bollocks set...its ****ing amazing!!!! ;) )

...to tell you the truth...i used to dj but got bored of a lot of the releases coming out and decided to concentrate on my producing, i think due to the sheer number of people producing now and the fact that it soooooo much easier to knock a quick track up (no a good one however) because of easier to use programs and the vast amount of vstis and synths about the place...this has lead to a saturation of music available to us all...and not all of it is good!

...for me...its all about the dancefloor...sod the latest sub genre or pigeon hole!!! i write music that i can shake my own ass to...and i generally do jump about my studio like a demented muppet lol
...and if i can shake my ass to it the chances are...the punters will be able to ass shake too...ya get me?

...so its that simple for me...im not really into earning money from what im doing...its something i love doing...just for the love of it...i love acid music period!
sure im putting an l.p of new acid artists together in the very near future...but im doing this for acid music...i dont expect to get anything from the release...just satisfaction that i have had my input into a scene that i am so passionate about and has given me so many pleasurable moments :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

@ dirtybass

im sorry but thats toss.

there are plenty of producers new & old doing the acid thing and doing it very well. the "oldschool" producers might not be as inventive as they were at one stage but they still come up with some classics now and again..

just look at route 59, suf 87, suf 84, suf 82 (to name but a few) & tunes like DTD's "hotwire" on infectious clearly show that acid CAN cross over into differant genres and still be outstanding.

to say that theres only 1 (new) producer doing it well is a serious insult to the likes of dogwash, KN, rhythm logistics, AP, myself or anyone else that is doing their thing (im not taking anything away from paul - he does it very well & is definitly up there).

but as with everything else the public vote with their feet and they're still voting acid..

---

Toss to you, truth to me.

I don`t see anyone making good acid techno.
Just my opinion.

There`s some good techno on some of those labels, but it isn`t acid.

...for me...its all about the dancefloor...sod the latest sub genre or pigeon hole!!! i write music that i can shake my own ass to...and i generally do jump about my studio like a demented muppet lol
...and if i can shake my ass to it the chances are...the punters will be able to ass shake too...ya get me?

...so its that simple for me...im not really into earning money from what im doing...its something i love doing...just for the love of it...i love acid music period!
sure im putting an l.p of new acid artists together in the very near future...but im doing this for acid music...i dont expect to get anything from the release...just satisfaction that i have had my input into a scene that i am so passionate about and has given me so many pleasurable moments :) Hats off,M8,that´s a great attitude,and that kind of enthusiasm will keep the vibe and the spirit of Acid Techno alive forever!Cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by acidguru

...for me...its all about the dancefloor...sod the latest sub genre or pigeon hole!!! i write music that i can shake my own ass to...and i generally do jump about my studio like a demented muppet lol
...and if i can shake my ass to it the chances are...the punters will be able to ass shake too...ya get me?

...so its that simple for me...im not really into earning money from what im doing...its something i love doing...just for the love of it...i love acid music period!
sure im putting an l.p of new acid artists together in the very near future...but im doing this for acid music...i dont expect to get anything from the release...just satisfaction that i have had my input into a scene that i am so passionate about and has given me so many pleasurable moments :) Hats off,M8,that´s a great attitude,and that kind of enthusiasm will keep the vibe and the spirit of Acid Techno alive forever!Cheers

---

nice one mate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Toss to you, truth to me.

I don`t see anyone making good acid techno.
Just my opinion.

There`s some good techno on some of those labels, but it isn`t acid.

---

exactly.. its just your opinion. and considering you seem to have the same opinion about most techno then y not just give it a rest?

for years the acid scene has endured bad attitude from techno "purists" and "elitists" (elitists is your own description of yourself in another thread remember). but having been involved in this perticular scene, you surely should know that the purist and elitist opinion isnt worth a toss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

exactly.. its just your opinion. and considering you seem to have the same opinion about most techno then y not just give it a rest?

for years the acid scene has endured bad attitude from techno "purists" and "elitists" (elitists is your own description of yourself in another thread remember). but having been involved in this perticular scene, you surely should know that the purist and elitist opinion isnt worth a toss.

---

*puts another log on the fire

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

exactly.. its just your opinion. and considering you seem to have the same opinion about most techno then y not just give it a rest?

for years the acid scene has endured bad attitude from techno "purists" and "elitists" (elitists is your own description of yourself in another thread remember). but having been involved in this perticular scene, you surely should know that the purist and elitist opinion isnt worth a toss.

---

I musta really got your goat up huh?

I don`t have the same opinions about techno at all.

I love what I love.

this is a forum, and it`s for discussion.

As far as I remember we are all free to have an opinion.

Mine disagrees with your opinion, but there`s no reason to get all stroppy, I mean really, I thought acid techno people were supposed to have a sense of humour and fun? compared to all us miserable techno people.

shouldn`t you be shouting something about "it`s not intelligent, and it`s not from detroit, but it`s ****ing having it" ?

I dunno, I`m off to polish my elitist badge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by acidguru

...for me...its all about the dancefloor...sod the latest sub genre or pigeon hole!!! i write music that i can shake my own ass to...and i generally do jump about my studio like a demented muppet lol
...and if i can shake my ass to it the chances are...the punters will be able to ass shake too...ya get me?

...so its that simple for me...im not really into earning money from what im doing...its something i love doing...just for the love of it...i love acid music period!
sure im putting an l.p of new acid artists together in the very near future...but im doing this for acid music...i dont expect to get anything from the release...just satisfaction that i have had my input into a scene that i am so passionate about and has given me so many pleasurable moments :) Hats off,M8,that´s a great attitude,and that kind of enthusiasm will keep the vibe and the spirit of Acid Techno alive forever!Cheers

---

Just wanna say that my reply starts after the smiley,the rest of it is from Paul Cortex´post,did some bad editing on this one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by acidguru

Just wanna say that my reply starts after the smiley,the rest of it is from Paul Cortex´post,did some bad editing on this one

---

i still got it

im going to throw in my two sense for what its worth! :mrmyagi:

I was virgin enough to not know what the feck acid techno was, when i was first introduced to dance music, i just went out and bought what i liked. It meant that I ended up with chunky house, Mauro Picotto on a techno tip, Cluster records that wonked the shit out of itself, aswell as loads of other banging shit.

I dint know the name for it, but i knew i liked it... each track had something fresh from the last which made it stand out from all the rest, and i think thats where Dirty Bass's point is coming from.

So much stuff... as much as it is a good tune, that will make the heads bop on a dance floor, is just revisiting old ground! Good ground, but old ground ye know? And punters, be it vinyl buyers or whtever, listen might listen to a record and say... "nice tune, but i have 50 like it at home", its what i say when im buying records.

Im not aiming this at acid techno btw, coz if that old Cluster shit is acid techno, then i love acid techno... this is music all over, but it has a distinct resonance in techno and similar styles, due to the nature of the market

but i know you lads are well able come up with the goods ;) you never know i might come up with some acid stuff one of these days!!