I joined this group on facebook called **** Minimal which was started off by Ben Sims it goes to show he is not the only Techno artist who is also pissed off with Minimal
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...3052329&ref=ts
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I joined this group on facebook called **** Minimal which was started off by Ben Sims it goes to show he is not the only Techno artist who is also pissed off with Minimal
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...3052329&ref=ts
hehehe id just like to state that I all along ne ver caved.
you spelt cared wrong ha ha
i seen that alright
I endorse this group.
I was going for Caved hahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Darkmode
Minimal (the comercial shit) is shit and always will be shit. end of.
Minimal house sucks donkey balls, minimal techno doesn't. Simples!
like every genre, 90 per cent of it is dogturd. if done right however its great.
not sure why a minimal forum has been added here though, techno and minimal is like dogs and cats.
:lol: so sims is a hater
fair do's, i'd much rather see sims belt it out than any of the big minimal jocks, although i wasn't digging that 'thriller' track he plays on the set that was posted on here recently, in the files section
Surely this forum doesn`t consist of 12 year old fanboys and actually is frequented by informed adults who understand that it is rather childish to hate on any music that you aren`t into.
What is the point of slagging off another genre of music. Techno as a genre, to continue to be somewhere near the cutting edge needs to change and progress. Artists need to experiment (Sims ironically has played minimal stuff in his sets over the last couple of years).
Currently main stream straight techno or "hard" techno hasn`t really progressed at all. The advent of crossing over with dubstep and minimal, and in fact a new emerging genre of music that sits somewhere between all 3, is the first signs of true progress.
The minimal explosion was a direct reaction to techno running out of steam, artists wanted to try something else. And because of this there have been reactions against it (which is healthy as it has forced progress) and reactions to it (which again is healthy as it pushes artists to try new things).
Music needs to develop to stay alive, and if you look at the history of various genres, at some point a new sound develops within a genre. Those who can`t except change stay with the same thing, and interest in the old skool of that genre wanes until it hits a steady, but not growth, fan base.
The new emergent genre generally gets a new name to separate itself, and begins a growth cycle, reaches a plateu and then the cycle repeats.
Hard techno has had it`s plateu and now I think has gone through it`s decay and has hit it`s steady fan base.
Why bleat about it? What difference will it make?
This is teh Internetz, bleeting is whut we do.
Is true.
But I think all dance music hate should be directed towards scouse house, which is excempt from all my above points
Shut up Steve.
Blackout Crew FTW!!!1
hahaha to be honest, i think it is healthy that people are directing the frustration to the white wash that is comercial minimal. There was too much of it. Producers and DJs whoring themselves to milk the minimal cow for money. it was so obvious and sickening to watch your hero's who at one time stood for something... blah blah....
anyway. Bollocks to it all. If it isn't mnml or scouse bloody house or deep shitty spunky house it will be something else.
Deep funky Schranz, minimal hardcore, fidget gabba anyone?
Fight teh donkz!!
Hey, Si. I'll put a donk on you in a minute.
What did they stand for?Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBlack
AIDS
This is probably just projection on my part but they stood for everything. When I first got into techno it felt faceless and exciting. Not driven by image as much as the rest of music had become, but driven by passion. Art I suppose. Maybe this was me projecting what I wanted out of it onto it. I dunno. But the minimal entity seemed to suck it out.
if it's good, it's good, and labels be damned.
that said, some sounds churn out more drivel than others.
That's why I love this guy!Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBlack
Doing something you're not into any more isn't exactly keeping it real.
Its about attitude, not genres. Some djs, crews, parties and tracks plain suck. Thats not to say that others aren't rocking it.
Nah, because it was "faceless" you projected onto it what you wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBlack
There has always been commercial techno, vip, champaign, sunglasses in the dark image conscious people making it.
The acid techno side of things was connected to the free party scene, so it had a more fringe society ethic, but as soon as people had to use it to pay the mortgage I think it changed a bit. But it was still part of (more so than all other brands of techno) something that stood for something. Anti establishment, political anarchy, freedom etc
You could even say, apart from squawtin and his fragrance brand etc that minimal is even less image driven, as there is less physical image.
Hardwax releases being generally white label and anonymous, and they very much drive the sound at the moment.
When techno was at it`s height, and Beyer and the like were doing their commercial loop-techno thing. That was no more or less lifeless than minimal is now, there was an underground in techno that was reacting against all that, in the same way that people are reacting against minimal.
The difference is that the people that were into that loopy sound, are now reacting against mnml, but for me, a lot of the stuff that gets raved about now with all the "techno was better in 199*" was quite commercial and predictable at the time.
Horses for courses.
Minimal means as much now to those who generally believe in the music, and not the scene, as it did for any previous incarnation of techno.
Personally I feel more passion in some, not all, minimal being made today, because there is obvious investment of time going into some of the music.
Musicality has been brought to the game as opposed to mashing any old loops together and calling it techno, you can feel the work that has gone into the production values. The music seems to be getting more musical, and less DJ-ey, if that makes sense.
Techno in the past has been kinda looked down on by some as having low production values and a culture of anyone can throw it together. Which has both positives and negatives.
I`m not a massive fan of mainstream minimal, but I`ve never really been much of a fan of mainstream anything, so I`m still finding creative, passionate, interesting and futuristic music.
To be honest I think Minimal is hyped up overrated mediocre crap it has done the Techno scene more harm than good & it forced Techno artists to compromise for the wrong reasons. Minimal is slowly on it's way out & when it dies watch & see how many of the Techno artists who jumped on the Minimal bandwagon will go back to Techno & if they do it will show them for who they really are!
Blanket statements about any form of music are normally ill-informed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmode
On the contrary there is, like all music, the good and the bad, the sell outs and the artists. SOme is mediocre, some is pushing the cutting edge, some is downright aweful. Same as techno same as anything.
You simply have to find it, just like anything else.
No one was forced to do anything, and some of the artists who have embraced a change have done some truly great stuff, I think Regis stuff as Kalon has been fantastic.
The suggestion that people will go "back" to making techno is perhaps misguided, if anything those that move with the zeitgeist may just move on to whatever change and development is next.
Minimal is on it`s way out and is dying?
Surely that must mean then that the previous main form of techno is dead?
Or will minimal die, but the older form of techno won`t?
I`m confused as to how music dies?
I thought it just starts with die hard fans, reaches it`s commercial peak, and then goes back to being supported by die hard fans
I think these kinds of fearful raves and reaction always happen when things change.
With techno I din it the most odd, as musically it has always been so fluid, and about change, and the future.
When it changes though, people can`t accept it, because they don`t really want change, they want familiarity.
Just because I don't like Minimal does not mean I am informed there is loads of people who into Minimal are informed about the music as they are into it becasue it's fashionable some of them have not even heard of Robert Hood & some diss him saying he is crap!Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
I don't like Minimal & a lot of people don't like it at the end of the day not everyone likes it those Techno artists who jumped on the Minimal bandwagon jumped on it for the money & the music they are releasing now is crap as they are only doing it for the money & you can tell when you here it there is no passion it it's soulless crap thats what I think & if people who are into Minimal don't like what I think than thats their problem! It's for poncy scarf waring pricks with silly haircuts end of!
That`s a blanket statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmode
To say EVERYONE is doing it for the money is just plain silly.
Skoog for instance, got bored of normal techno and did his agaric thing.
It gets boring making the same thing all the time, minimal for some was like a breath of fresh air, something new that still had the freedom to experiment of techno.
Monolake has found a place between minimal and dubstep that is very interesting, artistically very deep, he`s obviously trying something new, I find it very passionate.
Ruskin has played with a more stripped down, slowed down minimal style, his track on the ep I was on, surface recordings, I think is very tender, passionate, yet slams on the floor still.
You have to accept that musicains who are actually passionately into making music, will want to try new things, and spread their wings. Otherwise they get stuck in their ways doing the same thing again and again, and we call people like that Hacks.
I`m not saying I particularly like minimal as a whole, I like good music though, and I have found some great dark and powerful music that is minimal.
There is some stuff with great passion and emotional content out there, very powerful too.
And some people may well say Hood is crap, they aree ntitled to say that, and just as correct and justified in saying that as you are in saying that all minimal is without passion and only made for the money, I for one, don`t like anything Hood has done, it bores me to tears, but I understand what people do like about it.
Well I produce different types of music as I write & produce Electro & Techno which makes things more interesting I know what you mean when you say It gets boring making the same thing all the time, but I couldn't write & produce music that I don't like as my hart is not into it thats why I would not write a Minimal track
I'm not being silly as some of them have done it for the money maybe not all of them as you say but some of them have
This is the last thing I'm going to say about this subject!
what a load of old nonsense
what the hell are you lot talking about ?
Dunno, signed up to that group thinking it was a rant against all the trendy wank we put up with over the whole mnml uproar. Not really sure who's getting picked on tbh. Theres good mnml like liebing, speedy j, a.paul, industrialyser then there's terrible like the beatport techno top ten a couple of years ago (mabye even now? not looked).
I know what i like to hear and like to play.
As for heroes jumping ship? Just testing different waters i guess, what does and always will annoy me is the prancing about, fashion labels and obscure promotions instead of just keeping there heads down and doing their thing.
my 2p ;)
what a load of childish bollox. if you can't understand a style of music - it's your problem, not the music. it never ceases to amaze me why the hell dont timewasters like this actually put effort into making music to rival minimal rather than moaning and feeling all big and clever for being part of a 'clique' that hates it. pointless. absolutely pointless.
apparently it was Sims who started the page..:roflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
Hey, Mark- I'm gonna set up a facebook group against your hairstyle. Im gonna cal it **** Mark EG's hair do.Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
well i was thinking of having a perm, you know.
it doesnt matter who set it up imho. whoever did it wants attention. if you're involved in this game behind the scenes and have been for years, you should know that people's tastes change, music evolves and you have to evolve with it. who says you can be into something hard one day and then something groovier the next and drop the hard stuff. it doesnt necessarily mean you've done it cause of fashion. it just means you've seen the light and moved on. lumping everyone into the category of fashion followers is just plain thick if you ask me.
I agree.
Tribalism is dumb. It`s a form of racism. But it is a product of intense hardcore fandom as well.
Positive and negative.
Has he lost his mind?
Can he see or is he blind?
Can he walk at all,
Or if he moves will he fall?
Is he alive or dead?
Has he thoughts within his head?
Well just pass him there
Why should we even care?
I'd like to publicly apologise to everyone for my statements above. At the time I honestly didn't think this group would have been started by Ben but I've just found out it has been. My reaction was based around the fact I thought this was some bored kid wanting attention.
Ben is someone I respect massively and if that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. He definitely has the authority in my book to voice his opinion on a Facebook group.
Sorry guys.
*Mark crawls back under his rock*
:dans taxi:
hahaha
i have a simple bar for music: if i like it, i'll listen to it.
i don't see the point in either vapid adulation or reactionary negativity when it comes to 'scenes' or 'subgenres.' to people and their attitudes, maybe. but music is...music. judge it on its merits, according to whatever criteria is meaningful to you. but be open to it too.
...except scouse house, which is just objectively bad.
"...except scouse house, which is just objectively bad. "
You got that right!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
damn i wonder how many gunjack haters back pedal as fast as this when simsy drops "murda" at a gig hahahahahahah
You don't have to apologise at tall mate ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
As I say I feel Ben's frustration about Minimal & so do a lot of other well known Techno artists fair play to him for having the balls to set up a group & speak about it on facebook!
what difference does it make that Sims started the post? You were against it until then.Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
Some bored kids opinion is just as valid as Sims. He`s just a man.
No point back peddling for political reasons, Ben is a big man, I`m sure he can cope with someone disagreeing with him (he is an essex boy after all, where calling your mate a wanker can be a term of endearment), it doesn`t mean you ****ed his mum.
Retracting your statement just because the page was started by Sims ends up appearing a bit, erm, false.
i totally see what you're saying there. but the plain fact is, if i knew it was ben that started that, i don't think i would have layed into it with such force and in that tone, cause i know him and i respect him. the last thing i want to do on the net is start a web slag match with ppl i actually respect. i thought it was some silly jumped up kid with with a hidden agenda who just had a bee in his bonnet.. that's the way the comments on the front page of the group came across to me when i clicked the link. i should have researched more but i didnt have the time to flick through every page....Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
i still believe setting up a club against a certain group of ppl is a totally negative, wrong way of doing things. you simply can't pigeon hole all the dj's who've jumped ship like that. since i've realised this was ben i've checked the site more and i actually do agree with alot of what is said in the info page, but it's all said in a negative, conflict inducing way that is gonna achieve nothing imho. i'm not apologising for the principles of what i'm saying, i'm just apologising for the way i said it...
look, surely there is a better way of getting this **** minimal point across???? that, is the whole reason is set up the 'MINIMAL [NO HYPE]' forum up....
what does one gain by being "frustrated" by minimal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmode
seems to me like, if you don't really care for it, you don't have to play it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk
I'm frustrated with it as it has done the Techno scene more harm than good I'm totally passionate for Techno & I don't like what it has done to the Techno scene
Ironically, Sims plays minimal in his sets anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
I`m sure the man is just having a laugh.
its teh intrenetz. thas what iz for...
gunny i hate you
hate it up brudda