Backwards to go forwards

I don`t think you need to look at older more "free" tracks to gain inspiration.
If you are that bothered by there being restraints, then simply break those restraints.
The main point was that "key" players are doing this.
Well that`s cos they have been doing techno for ages, and maybe are burnt out.
Sure there are some lessons to be learned from old productions.
To see what has been before etc
But this, returning to old skool vibes, which essentially is a way of twisting what is actually happening, which is remaking what has been before.
Lets not pretend it is anything else.

mate, all i'm saying is:

1) "old school" or "retro" as a predetermined set of sounds=fine, but not innovative
2) "old school" as a state of mind, in light of the overly segmented, overly self-conscious state of MOST techno today, is a way forward. it's both the past and the potential future. i don't ever want to make a track that sounds like a 2nd-rate e-dancer, but i'd sure as hell like to make tracks that achieve what heavenly or pump the move did. tracks that are emotive and free like those are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

mate, all i'm saying is:

1) "old school" or "retro" as a predetermined set of sounds=fine, but not innovative
2) "old school" as a state of mind, in light of the overly segmented, overly self-conscious state of MOST techno today, is a way forward. it's both the past and the potential future. i don't ever want to make a track that sounds like a 2nd-rate e-dancer, but i'd sure as hell like to make tracks that achieve what heavenly or pump the move did. tracks that are emotive and free like those are.

---

That`s not an old school state of mind, that`s a creative frame of mind.
Making music for the sake of it, rather than so it`s easy for a DJ to mix, and doesn`t sound tto different from your sub genre.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

mate, all i'm saying is:

1) "old school" or "retro" as a predetermined set of sounds=fine, but not innovative
2) "old school" as a state of mind, in light of the overly segmented, overly self-conscious state of MOST techno today, is a way forward. it's both the past and the potential future. i don't ever want to make a track that sounds like a 2nd-rate e-dancer, but i'd sure as hell like to make tracks that achieve what heavenly or pump the move did. tracks that are emotive and free like those are.

---

That`s not an old school state of mind, that`s a creative frame of mind.
Making music for the sake of it, rather than so it`s easy for a DJ to mix, and doesn`t sound tto different from your sub genre.

---

AND, my point is that much older techno was, to me, a lot more f***ing creative than all the cookie cutter sh*t you hear now. i've said this like a hundred times on here, in a number of contexts: free yourself of context and your music will cease to be endlessly self-referential, which is NOTABLY the principle characteristic i admire in old techno.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

because it was so good! thats what boundry pushing is all about. makin the nerds and the geeks sit up and listen.

---

Dude, nerds RUIN techno !

Personally, I'm still sticking with my 'music that rocks' ethos. Some music does, and some really DOES NOT :-)

I wouldn't say it's neccesary to go 'backwards', just keep on keepin' on and if you rock then there's no problem.

Also, I'd say techno is more a state of mind and an attitude towards production as opposed to being an actual definable style of 'music', much like hip-hop.

I don't really listen to techno. I've got Chuck Berry and Little Richard on a lot of the time, to be perfectly honest.

The thing that rules about this music is that they're not scared to just rock the **** out of one riff for a whole track, cause they know that it's good enough.

The main thing you notice when looking at 'songs' is that there's usually a part that most people look forward to, a favourite riff or modulation or something. Many bands dress these bits up and only let you have snippets in amongst more average stuff, but these high points often keep the track afloat - the lows working almost paradoxically to make the highs even MORE ROCKING.

I think a lot of hip-hop and techno is all about trying to create 'the perfect beat' which is just totally awesome and will make ninjas appear and pop, like, 10,000,000 boners all at once and wail hard on guitars while beheading pirates and exploding.

I'm not saying I'm right, but I don't think too many people look at it this way. Many people are trying to make what they think is 'techno' cause that's what they've heard described as 'techno' and they're missing the point. I love techno as a musical form as you can basically throw whatever the **** you want into the mix. However, presuming (and KNOWING) that this is the case, doesn't anyone find it puzzling how much of this stuff ALL SOUNDS THE SAME ?

I think one of the main problems in techno is the very fact that there is no real money in it. If we had some seriously arsey A&R folks jetting about the country signing up techno artists I'd lay money on it that a lot of the rubbish stuff would just disappear and people would simply have to up their game. Silly scenario, I know, but I think the lack of any sort of quality control in the chain does basically hurt the scene, ya know.

I'm sure I've said it before on here but it's like anyone with a laptop can do an ableton set of their own stuff from day 1 - no problem. Would you step up onstage with a guitar having no prior knowledge of how to play it and expect to be able to rock like Jimmy Page ? No, you would not... (are you feeling the analogy, mmmmm, sweet)

Surely people must notice how much more musical (on the whole) techno was in hardware days when you had to work to buy equipment and actually LEARN IT FOR MONTHS once you'd got it home ? This was an unfortunate neccesity in those days, but a valuable learning curve that I feel is essentially missing from the 'techno' making process nowadays.

Techno seems to have almost become the music that's made by people who can't make anything else*. That's LAME.

Jeez, what a ****ing diatribe. Honestly, if you don't know me you'd be forgiven for thinking I was a total cunt ;-)

*No offence to people making the super-grind, you know I love you all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieBall

Honestly, if you don't know me you'd be forgiven for thinking I was a total cunt ;-)

---

I'm not, by the way. I'm disarmingly charming.

:lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieBall

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

because it was so good! thats what boundry pushing is all about. makin the nerds and the geeks sit up and listen.

---

Dude, nerds RUIN techno !

---

i think you misread me jamie. i didnt mean the point was to make them listen i just meant that you know you've done something totally out there when the "nerds" notice...

*rhythm technologies in no way condones the use of nerds for medicinal or musical experimentation*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieBall

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

because it was so good! thats what boundry pushing is all about. makin the nerds and the geeks sit up and listen.

---

Dude, nerds RUIN techno !

---

i think you misread me jamie. i didnt mean the point was to make them listen i just meant that you know you've done something totally out there when the "nerds" notice...

*rhythm technologies in no way condones the use of nerds for medicinal or musical experimentation*

---

Nah, all's good my man. It wasn't really directed at what you'd said anyways. I just like any excuse to rag on nerds. ;)

Mind you, best to bear in mind that when nerds notice your stuff you might just have done something... well... nerdy :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieBall

Techno seems to have almost become the music that's made by people who can't make anything else*. That's LAME.

---

I have to agree with pretty much everything you said.
There aren`t enough musicains making techno.
Too many DJ`s with a copy of reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieBall

Techno seems to have almost become the music that's made by people who can't make anything else*. That's LAME.

---

hahah so true.
People need to branch out creatively more.

I honestly raaaaarely if ever, listen to techno if I'm at work or at home.
I have more jazz, and hip hop in my collection of cds and music than I do anything else. It's important for me to be able to find little things in all of that, that can be applied when making techno, in subtle ways.

I'm sure many other people are like that as well.

But if all you listen to all day is techno and then you go to try and make techno.. you will inevitably, unnoticingly, mimic something you have heard.. even if you don't mean to.
Thus the whole incestuous, samey shit we are hearing a lot of.

Booooo

Go listen to something else people

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieBall

Techno seems to have almost become the music that's made by people who can't make anything else*. That's LAME.

---

I have to agree with pretty much everything you said.
There aren`t enough musicains making techno.
Too many DJ`s with a copy of reason.

---

exactly.

problem is, most people with a reasonable amount of musical ability dont want to be connected to this genre. its almost got to a point where its become embarassing to be connected to it.

like i said earlier> my guess is that even if you try and break the techno formula then it becomes something else. (due to the way other genres have made ground musically) which brings me to the conclusion that techno is doomed. for me anyway. there are very few artists in this genre that i respect anymore. (probably less than 10) i really cant see that list expanding short-term nor long-term.

i think their are lots of people on this forum who think maximum media exposure is good for genre. maybe the people who tried to take techno to the masses should be held partly responsible. i think some people seem to forget why they got into techno in the first place. when you take something that has cult status to the media playground then things just dont seem fun anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xfive

But if all you listen to all day is techno and then you go to try and make techno.. you will inevitably, unnoticingly, mimic something you have heard.. even if you don't mean to.
Thus the whole incestuous, samey shit we are hearing a lot of.

Booooo

Go listen to something else people

---

Yeah, for sure.
In general though, **** techno. The reason the likes of Landstrumm or whoever make techno with an edge is because they're no slaves to techno. They have a passion for more music outside of techno, and realise it's not the be all and end all. I mean, Scandanavia for instance is not a strictly techno label, yet it still serves up some of the best techno going when it feels like it. I like their style :cool:

100% agree with jamie.

Nerds ruin any music. a good example, i have a friend who spent three years at university.. loves his techno, loves his house and drum n bass. he knows a shit load about phase shaping, wave structure, he's written his own programs on his graphing calculator to deal with some complex shit...

he has yet to finish a piece of music that doesnt sound like it was painted by numbers.

As for listening to other music... you damn right, thats the KEY MOFO'ing word. MUSIC its like reading onlly mills and boon, you'll get a wet pussy for a guy in a suit, but not for good looking guys in generaL.

read all the books and you can get a slippy lips for any kind of fella.

listen to all the music, man thats why i love techno, it doesnt **** about when it comes to taking influences, there isnt a big broo ha ha about it like the sort of bollox sting comes out with 'yeah man i went to the jungle and found a guy with a flute' sod off you turd. techno artists do that anyway, except we use pots and ****ing pans and junkyards and sample CDS and ripped dialogue off the radio and the tv and films and we synthesize it and sample it.

Techno has a massively broad pallete of musical influences, and those that dont use them are infants.

just as an aside, i never really liked using the phrase techno producer with people who dont know what im talking about... i always though electronic music producer was a bit more accurate even though it sounds vaguer. And i dont mean it in a poncy way neither.. :lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dodgyedgy

just as an aside, i never really liked using the phrase techno producer with people who dont know what im talking about... i always though electronic music producer was a bit more accurate even though it sounds vaguer. And i dont mean it in a poncy way neither.. :lol:

---

Yep.. I find I do the same thing although I say "Dance music" and then when asked further "Nasty farkin jackin machinemusic"....

usually they then ask me something else....hehehe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dodgyedgy

Techno has a massively broad pallete of musical influences, and those that dont use them are infants.

---

yeah, your right. sometimes techno sounds like house.

I’m not particularly interested in a 'retro' revival, but I would love to see people writing music the old way. The way I see it is the secret ingredient is both midi and single hits. That’s just technique, something which can be reapplied to all music over and over. This is noticeable in older techno music. This is why, for me older techno is a bigger influence than the newer techno. Not really the main influence tho, I find myself listening to pretty much everything these days. It boils back down to whats already been said, the lack of musical ability. This isnt just techno thats facing this problem tho, its happening in many genre's right now and is a product of software been more advanced and widley available

I think the scenes missing new blood, go out these days and the dance floor is like a geriatric ward. Also these who act like their the next ‘avant-garde‘ innovator of techno don’t really seem to be doing anything really new for me anyways. They mean nothing to me when compared to people who really screw around with gear and software, do circuit bending or obscure multimedia audio visual type shows. Those are the unsung heroes of techno who with odd exception, are distanced from ‘techno music’ or stuff in the clubs anyways. So its not really just down to musical ability I think, its also technical ability. Look at how easy it is to use Ableton to mash up loops. Could be part of the problem on why there is a lot of plap around perhaps

I think younger people are more interested in attitude and edginess anyways. As been said previously “how much it rocks!” I would like to see more artists with musical ability, technical ability and attitude or aggression. There are some but there needs to be more. I don’t think the minimal thing will last that long as there’s no attitude in it. Nor do I care really. I would like to see more hard techno tho, not so much the scranze but the stuff in the middle. The stuff we all love

Jamie, your obsession with the ninja’s disturbs me :lol: :clap:

I know where your coming from tho

http://www.tdk.co.jp/techmag/ninja/daa00381.gif

Wouldn’t it be funny if all this philosophical talk about past, present & future lead us to the possibility that has nothing to do with time and everything to do with the amount of ketamin in E. That this was slowing down electronic music, ****ing checkout the dubstep floating around, some would say thats slowed down minimal drum and bass

Oooo errrr

Could techno really be drug music?

Someone should invent some new drugs in the amphetamine family which we can push on school kids and bring back the rave scene. That way when they mature and move on we got a load of potential customers to sell record to!

Then again all that could be total bollocks!