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Currently, the Breaks scene is getting a lot of DJs (particularly in Spain) cutting tunes out of mixes and re-ediing the beginning and end.Quote:
Originally Posted by ndamico
True, it would be a bit more difficult with Techno, but still - not foolproof.
Last week i had a mix at this club and noticed all the residents were mixin downloaded mp3's.Quote:
Originally Posted by massplanck
I looked at my box of vinyl then their case of cd's and thought man ive spent so much time and $ collecting these tunes, and these dudes have probably spent f**k all time downlading all the latest tracks for the cost of the blank disks.
It bothered me, so i asked one of the dudes why he steals all his music. His reply was something like "well i don't do this seriously. It's just a hobby and a bit of fun. If i was serious id love to get into vinyl but at the moment i just cant afford it". Even though he's 'not serious' he is the resident dj collecting a few hundred $ each night + he's a qualified electrician so $ really isn't an issue (gotta pay off that jet ski i guess.....".
The other thing that bothered me was that much of their stolen music was then imported to programs like ableton where they pre mixed fx tricks then burnt to disk. This sucked cuz while they're struggling to match their beats, some pre mixed fx trick is goin off and everyone thinks the dj's r doin it live. But on the flip side i felt like i gotta push myself harder and create my own build ups (like Adam Beyer ;) )
i gotta say though when i come up against a dj with cd's, i feel a sense of pride in a odd kinda weird way.
These guys you mention don't deserve to be playing in a club. Club managers/promoters should be wide to these people and have them ****ed out. Although I guess many mightn't care about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sash
What annoys me is the guys that'll do their research in the shop, then go home and download the tracks, or the others that will actually copy down the names to a piece of paper as they are listening. It doesn't happen often at our shop, next time it does though there'll be trouble :rambo:
[quote="Sunil"] Club managers/promoters should be wide to these people and have them **** out. Although I guess many mightn't care about it.
quote]
The pressure of owning a club must b intense i assume. I don't think most managers/ promoters couldn't give a toss about illegal music being played at their clubs as long as the 'right' music is being played.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by sash
It's a shame djs such as these are employed though. Getting paid to steal from the scene basically. **** them.
honestly mate don't worry about it. these guys will be in and out like fashion. dont' blame ableton, don't blame MP3's. ANYONE CANN BEATMATCH. it's not about this, it's about programming, it's about dropping the right sound at the right moment. i play 100% vinyl still when i play out, but let me on ableton for an hour and do the same thing and I WOULD get the same response. why? it's not ableton. it's the way you portray your music, the passion you show and the way you present your sound. i remember when ppl looked down their noses at CD's and then now they're everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by sash
technology doesn't scare me, but it scares too many ppl, even though they dont admit it. so they slag it. but SKILL and DEVOTION and PASSION shines through 100% of the time in music. DON T even worry about it. use it for what it is if you think it will improve your sound, but don't worry about it.
:twisted:
I know you said that bloke fessed up about not paying for those tunes but I'm quite surprised that people seem to be immediately assuming they've nicked them from a p2p network.Quote:
Last week i had a mix at this club and noticed all the residents were mixin downloaded mp3's.
I looked at my box of vinyl then their case of cd's and thought man ive spent so much time and $ collecting these tunes, and these dudes have probably spent f**k all time downlading all the latest tracks for the cost of the blank disks.
It bothered me, so i asked one of the dudes why he steals all his music. His reply was something like "well i don't do this seriously. It's just a hobby and a bit of fun. If i was serious id love to get into vinyl but at the moment i just cant afford it". Even though he's 'not serious' he is the resident dj collecting a few hundred $ each night + he's a qualified electrician so $ really isn't an issue (gotta pay off that jet ski i guess.....".
i gotta say though when i come up against a dj with cd's, i feel a sense of pride in a odd kinda weird way.
My other half always has loads of tunes with him on cd when he's playing somewhere. Never occured to me that anyone would think the tracks were stolen, cos they're not. The decks and mixer are hooked into the Mac so he can play a record through and record it onto the hard drive, then burn it onto cd. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that, but would you assume the tracks weren't paid for, rather than something he bought and put into a different format? Weird, I'd never thought might look like that's what he's done.
He does it so he's got more stuff he can play without giving himself a hernia carrying tons of vinyl about. I know another dj who does the same thing so he can mix a tune from one side into the track on the flipside without having to carry two copies of the same record about.
I never got into p2p sharing, mainly because you couldn't do it on a Mac. Napster didn't work and it all seemed a big too much trouble if you ever *did* manage to find anything to then download it on dialup!
I don't believe the practise is that widespread - how many people are going to bother recording a record, so they can give it away for nothing on p2p? not that many surely in techno terms, as stated above it would be more likely people recording cd's for their own use, to save carrying around the vinyl. If CD seems the way to go, then maybe the small labels should just start selling cd singles? I realise this will push up their manufacturing costs tho.... Personally I rip my cd's I've bought to my computer just for ease of listening,
but one thing that nobody on here has mentioned is the effect of p2p has had on the music buying public's appetite.....it has increased it. Music sales in the uk in 2004 were the largest recorded in history, now I know this doesn't necessarily translate into sales for small labels around these parts, and you could argue that the mainstream artists are just selling more copies cheaper...............but it proves a point - the more music people have (illegal or not) the more they want, remember video didn't kill the cinema - it re-invented it.
I'm sure we will soon see labels selling downloads, some have already started - truelove, trackitdown and no doubt lots of others. Paying a quid for a banging track is a bargain, add 20 pence for a blank cd and voila! and is probably more profitable for the label who only a make a quid or two on a 12", before long everybody will be offering this service or getting another company to offer it for them, it's inevitable, it's just that there will be a period of instability as the market settles down, but to steal tracks at that price is taking the p*ss, I'd rather have a top quality guaranteed to play to the end track and pay my money.
Personally though I would rather watch somebody mix on a pair of decks (vinyl or CD) than watch a laptop set.....'Hey dude check out my mouse action...' :lol: :lol: it's not very rock and roll is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
That post is so on point you could prick yourself with it.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Pick a new techno releaseQuote:
Originally Posted by lunatrick
wait about a week
and search on soulseek
you`ll find it
must admit I've never done it - and I'm suprised - mostly use soulseek for mixes..there's some sad and wierd people out there.............Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
i buy absolute shedloads of vinyl and i do use the odd cd as well....mainly for tunes i havent been able to buy for whatever reason....its no argument i suppose.....but for every roni size track ive downloaded....theres 3 records of his in my box.....its impossible to be able to afford to buy every type of music i like to listen to.....but i do try and balance it out and i contribute as much as i can back into the scenes i listen to....if i get paid £800 in a month....guarenteed £200 of it goes on vinyl....the rest on rent etc....i cant actually contribute more....
again though i mainly use cds for classic that are unavailable to buy anymore and for tunes that have been available for download for free (theres plenty about on artists sites etc!)
:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
Thats EXACTLY the way i view it.
there aint no plug in for passion or devotion. word.
for my 2p, there isnt a substitute for enjoying yourself behind a pair of decks. screw three decks, screw technical sasha maven style innovation i still prefer to see someone play who ENJOYS what they do.
As for the MP3 issue, im in the camp that says it doesnt matter what format you play in , if you can make it yours then its yours. Yes - style matters, content matters, programming i totally agree is a beast!.
I love vinyl - the warmth is perfect, fat and in perfect harmony with the human ear.
long live vinyl - although hoping it will... im not sure.
I look at things like this - music is eternal. recorded music has really only been around for the last 100 yrs or so. of that 100 years it really is only in the last 20 years that its been available to the common or poor person. music delivery is changing... the way that people listen and pay for music is changing.
im not in the know enough to see what the result will be, but im pretty sure that the DJ will change - we have to - change = motion.
i got more to add, but i'dlike to hear what others have to say.
technology changes things, though it's not necessarily good or bad, just different.
there's room for people spinning vinyl AND ableton sets.
why should there only be room for one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
ouch, anyone got a plaster, this post says it all :clap:
#yes!. they're doing something similar on doa, linking with some established online mp3 place .check it-Quote:
Originally Posted by massplanck
http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread...p;pagenumber=1
maybe mark could try and hook something like this up, for the new site.
This topic has come up too much for me to do another long rant about it. I have a different view than a number of people here I guess (at least those who are vocal). I'm fine with people who download my own music or others and play it out. Would I prefer it the other way? Absolutely. But, I absolutely love the advancements in technology that have been made it possible for me to be able to distribute my own music. and listen to music of others, without having to deal with the same bottom line business oriented channels of the past. For all the nay saying, MP3 and other technological advancements have pushed us forward. If techno is as dying as a number of the people who like to piss on advancements like MP3 say it is, well, MP3 and the net is one of the reasons why the industry hasn't been able to shove us into a shelf of obscurity. We no longer need the ways and channels of the past to keep us alive or accessable. We can do what we do, middle fingers blazing, without any industry suit's help or promotional pushes. Take the positives with the negatives and realise we have a good thing.
www.foryourears.com seems to be well on its way with the whole online download thing and its mainly techno and breaks oriented.
I still call for the database idea that links releases to where they are available online (and physically). I would do it myself but I'm no net coding guru... The internet can be used so well for cataloging and hunting down music...
Is anyone chummy with the guys who run www.discogs.com?
They have everything in place for such a thing. It would only be a matter of taking the base code, sexing it up and changing a bit of text around. Information is contributed by label owners, shop owners and anyone who joins up then gets verified by the mods before being posted online.
Once the structure is in place, it doesn't take much to add an entry. A couple of minutes tops. It would consist of non hyped/promotional release info (such as name, tracks, date released, credits etc) and store locations/urls.
welcome back, man!Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
i think there are 2 issues...not sure whether you are responding to people who are against illegal downloading or against people spinning cds or whatever using mp3s.
a lot of people are against digital delivery because they are vinyl traditionalists. others, like me, don't really care about that, but just think the end user has an ethical responsibility within the techno community to pay for music to use playing live or djing unless the artist and label want to give it up for free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by massplanck
I'm all about the pulling together method...we're all we have left. :clap:
And your last statement, EXCELLENT point! I can't agree with you more.
All over it like white on rice. Well done. :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
Thanks. I had a rreally good time out in Romania and Hungary. I met some really nice guys in Budapest. On a side note, for anyone who is in the area, there is a party they are doing with some hardcore and hard techno. Lenny Dee is spinning in Budapest for the first time in 10 years. http://gabber.kingdom.hu/kingdom.phpQuote:
Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk
I'm kind of talking about all of it since I think when people get stuck on laws and ethics, they make things too black or white and ignore positive greys. It is a fact that I would not have heard a number of artists' music, some who post here, if not for the ability to pirate music with something like soulseek as a result of MP3. The music just isn't for sale around where I am. Yet, with free communication systems that allow for discussion and the downloading of music, I'm aware of some good people and music which, otherwise, I would have absolutely no knowledge. The people I know who are really into the music buy what they like in the end. The hardcore pirates remind me largely of kids who dubbed and traded mixtapes in that they were never buying the vinyl anyways. Other music genres or scenes have suffered setbacks as popularity comes and goes in waves. I'm just not seeing how it's any different for techno. Thus, I find the notion of placing heavy blame on hobbyists who are actually still into a style of music to be really misguided. The majority of people are not usually inclined to support people who they think are acting like dicks. When I see people blaming an audience for a decline in sales, and using examples here and there of some unknown and unplacable DJ using pirated music to make money as a justification for some pretty heavy and *gasp* "negative" attitudes and talking towards a majority of people who are just music fans in the end, I think it's counterproductive. As for any idea as to what technology is superior and what should be used when it comes to playback, I can just ignore that. I do way too much with digital technology to really care all that much about what some people scattered across the globe on webboards would think about that if they saw me using it. It just reminds me of the "rockers" I've mentioned in other threads who used to bitch about people using a drum machine instead of a drummer.Quote:
i think there are 2 issues...not sure whether you are responding to people who are against illegal downloading or against people spinning cds or whatever using mp3s.
a lot of people are against digital delivery because they are vinyl traditionalists. others, like me, don't really care about that, but just think the end user has an ethical responsibility within the techno community to pay for music to use playing live or djing unless the artist and label want to give it up for free.
well, i have a sort of mixed opinion on downloading...i don't think it's so bad for mixes. i just think djs should pay for music used to play out as an ethical obligation to the community. there are already ways to get vinyl...juno, planetx, etc. it would be nice to have a paid online service for mp3s, like has been suggested here.
again, i think it's up to the individual to do this...
mp3 killed the cd star.
yeah i hear ya chief :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
I just had a thought about this, if we are going to be giving shit to people who are playing ripped off mp3's, then really we should also be giving shit to people who are buying/playing records with uncleared samples on them. And I'd be willing to bet that pretty much everyone on this board has a few tracks with samples that were never cleared. In fact, probably more than a few, as I know there are loads of techno artists and labels out there who sample, and no doubt alot of them never actually get round to sorting out permission to use a sample.
I dont really blame them, cause I've made tunes with samples in them, and I doubt I'd ever get permission to use them (some of the artists I've ripped include Micheal Jackson, Nine Inch Nails, Rose Royce, Peaches, Lyn Collins - these sort of people might get funny about it), but I still play them out, and would even go as far as to release them as bootlegs if I ever got the chance.
So what do people reckon? The way I see it, buying/playing records with uncleared samples is stealing from an artist in a similar way to downloading mp3's, yet this is probably even more common a practice than playing ripped off mp3's - so should everyone burn their User records then or what?
who would care-
say you ripped of bad by micheal jackson and did release it on a proper label and sold 500-1000 copys.
what could they really sue you for??
200 quid......so fuks
Damages.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpy green
People in the techno industry who give a shit about piracy are just like most other people. They never cared until it affected them. It was perfectly ok to pilfer sampler after sample, pirate software for creativity purposes, sell drugs to buy gear, and use a pair of bolt cutters to use someone else's property to throw a party. Let some years pass where people can go a bit more legit, and all of a sudden it's no longer cool if they are the other guy who has to deal with punks acting like they did. I still don't think this justifies any person pirating anything, btw. But, for people who will break laws to do what they want, they have no soapbox to stand on for this issue.
well, that's a good point, but i think for me, at least, i'm not suggesting anyone be prosecuted or anything...i just think people have a responsibility to the community...maybe people have a responsibility to the makers of software...but that's another issue...Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
Man hitting the nail on the proverbial head is your forte! Such an excellent point. Now that many are "grown up" and/or "legit" they are calling the kettle black. I don't defend pirating of underground music either, but let's be realistic here and note the hypocrisy that exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
As a side note, I may get totally flamed for this, but ITS MY OPINION. The major record industry conglomerates whine and produce press that they are "losing major revenue" from shared music. However, what they don't note is that their profit margins are still growing every year! Yes, this is a fact and you can research it at any of the major financial websites. ( www.bloomberg.com www.forbes.com ) In 2002 EMI said they lost something around 8-9% in CD sales, yet their profit margin was still up 13% for the year! So boo hoo to them...I feel that's what they get for forcefeeding the market (at least the American market) with a wave of factory produced boy bands and shitty rappers. Its power to the people and as long as the product sucks sales will go down anyway, which is exactly what has been documented as the major reason for the decline in sales! Not the pirated/shared music files, but there has been a shift in the quality of music being released and the public is responding by refusing to purchase it!
how much cas/damage could a techno track get them......i doubt it would be worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
we sampled clint eastwood
i hope he doesn't come round looking for damages
man with no name.....yikes!
so, do you feel lucky punk?Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
http://www.space-debris.com/spy_east...tyHarry_LG.jpg
Ask the KLF. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpy green
lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
klf- who sued em.???
mind you they prob made a fair bit of cash in the day...
yer average underground techno record aint gonna make that much, maybe £1000 if you real lucky, so say that was the case, then they could surely only get a max of £1000 outta ya :scratch: :scratch:
not worth worrying about IMO(if this is the case)
I tell you what is a more damaging thing to techno than mp3s, labels that don't pay their artists...
test case:Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpy green
Si Begg vs The beach boys (True story)
Beach boys lawyers: hello we're representing the beach boys, and we understand you released a record with an uncleared sample from our clients, how many of this record did you actually sell?
Si Begg: oh, about 5000.
Beach boys lawyers: oh, oh, ok, we'll be in touch... click brrrrrrrrrrrr...
basically they are not interested unless there is serious money to be made i.e. a lot more than off 5000 records
just what i thought.
and even if they did go for it i doubt it would be any fee that couldnt be payed so id defo not have a problem sampling stuff.
id just be like take the 500 quid and fuk aff.....then id sell more crack and be back on top. ;) ;)
sweet....i'm goin straight to the video store c what i can find. Now where's that 'Warriors' DVD? :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by crime
I wasnt so much thinking about samples from things like the beach boys or clint eastwood as I was thinking about people who sample other techno tracks to make their own techno tracks - think ignition technician as a prime example. They may well clear their samples I dont really know, but there are plenty of things that get released with that sort of sampling in them, that dont get cleared.
Anyway its just a thought I had, I dont really care that much, as I said I've sampled all sorts, and dont really care about clearing it, but one thing I will say is I've never sampled another techno track, all my samples come from other genres of music, and the artist will probably never know, so I dont really care.
man, that's the kind of priceless film you gots ta OWN!Quote:
Originally Posted by sash
I think the better question to ask is who HASN'T sued the KLF. ;) But, anyways, there big music lawsuit involved "What Time is Love." The offending sample that basically got another person ownership credits in the song? Some bullshit quick vocal snippets from a Wanda Dee album. She sued, settled out of court, claimed that she was "responsible for their hits" and "co-wrote the songs" and even began touring as "The KLF feat. Wanda Dee." So, there was one particular artist who didn't like getting sued and fought back in a way that every musician industry whore would envy. ABBA sued them as well and they had to destroy their recordings as a result. I'm sure you can find more if you do a search online.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpy green
Now, as for the "underground" component, how do you know if your song is going to be a hit? Or, if one is the type of person prone to bitch about people stealing one's music, why is it ok to steal from others? The answer is what I posted earlier. A good amount of techno musicians have turned into hypocrites or a sad parody of what they used to be. Then, some just jumped in with the same intentions of every other artist in the mainstream industry that wants to make a buck first and foremost. I kind of like the fact that the KLF, after sampling the shit out of so many people, often in some pretty obnoxious ways, burned a million pounds that they made through their music. There's a fun statement. And then there's people more like us who piss and moan about losing a few cents here and there when someone downloads a track they pasted together holding unlicensed slices of music belonging to other artists. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" or something like that. ;)
:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
Awesome. :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin