I reckon slash might pull in more than mills though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aratron
Id go and see him at a techno night :)
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I reckon slash might pull in more than mills though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aratron
Id go and see him at a techno night :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pace
read my posts ;)
hehe, all on the money mate. Heard edinburgh was the place to be not so long back. My only experiences of clubbing up that way were going to 'rezerection' at the royal highland showground when I was a wee bairn. Although I have an enduring memory of 10k charged up hibbs shouting along to 'toytown' (hixxy and sharkey, you know da score...).Quote:
Originally Posted by FuK-NuT
Thems were the days.
We're doing a residents and friends party at our next night. Be interesting to see how many we pull compared to the headliner gigs.
Ahh makes sense now, Hows things hope you are doing well?Quote:
Originally Posted by RDR
A crazy combination of money worries, starting a label, dealing with the SYLD stuff in part, music tech lecturing and .. and... and... :hissyfit: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kells
So about normal really... :)
You?
Thats the problem in the UK when promoters hold nights people will only turn up if a big name is playing & don't show their faces when it's an artist they haven't heard of which I think is very closed minded. They seem to think coz it's a big name artist they think he or she is gonna be good even though they probs haven't seen or heard them play. I think the whole Superstar DJ thing has a lot of answer for as the majority of people who only turn up to see the big names play are just sheep with no mind of their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
The original post that started this thread said exactly the opposite of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmode
Perhaps what you are saying has resonance with big trance or 'pop' dance music events...
tricky one. if u get a reputation for putting on a good party, after a while u get a big regular crowd in each month whoever is playing. if u get on a superstar dj-booking tip, u can pack em in if u get the booking+promo right or u can bomb if it goes wrong. when it goes right tho... awesome
but bombing on a 400quid budget is different to bombing on a 2 grand budget...
end of the day, people will go to what they think will be a good nite. if youve done the groundwork and put on a run of smallish, low-budget, wicked nites with great local/cheap djs, you dont need to go and book mills or dave clarke and risk a crapload of money on a bunch of fickle punters.
i reckon leave the big'uns to the promoters with cash to burn unless ur certain ur on a winner. or got cash to burn.
all about the grass roots maaan ;)
Thats stop No.1 on the road to having a long running event.Quote:
get a reputation for putting on a good party
word!Quote:
Originally Posted by barry_fyasko
I've got 100% respect for Speedy J. but there's definitely some truth in what you're saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aratron
frankly, if you are packing the house when you have locals playing, then you are doing a damn bit better than most techno nights that i know of in the states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDR
Sorry if you miss-understood in what I was saying basicly I was saying in general that some people that go to Techno nights held in the UK only go to them when when a big name Techno artist is playing & don't turn up when it's an artist they haven't heard of.
Some truth in that for sure, but stilll, Speedy is one of the busiest of all the djs, after speaking with him i can vouch for that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Microdot
Loads iof folk came especially to see him play @ Joy, we had a hell of alot of people calling about the event and asking about him, even after the event we had calls asking when the bloody event was...which is annoying !!
i dont think it would have mattered what DJ was on that night (where 20 people turned up), would have prob only been the same amount of folk their no matter what DJ was on
thing is, its not just in the Techno scene this is happening.
In the past couple of years, in addition to many half empty Techno clubs, I've seen DJ Premier play to about 200 ppl, Flavor Flav entertain a crowd of about 50, and most shocking of all, Clipse in Leeds with a couple hundred there.. less than 200..one of the best live sets I've ever mind.
Radio One, MTV, Channel 4 etc have been pushing Rock music hard the past couple years, and alot of kids wanna go see bands instead these days..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Microdot
Thing is, alot of the major citys, and Leeds for one are full of students who mainly wanna go to where they can show off their latest clothes and sunglasses, and obviously they all go to the same place as the rest of the students....alot of it now is not about the music anymore, its a shame but this is how it is, things like Mixmag dont help either,
To these people, the djs we think are big are almost or even totally unknown to them, unless of course they are big in ibiza or mixmag etc...
funny thing is, these kids think they are listening to techno, and half the time its anything but that!!!
That's very true same thing is happening here in the states.Quote:
Originally Posted by Microdot
MTV pushes the emo thing to the fore front and everyone else is following trends that they see on Sucker Free
So while Primo and Mobb Deep used to fill stadiums they could hardly fill a poetry club now.
Maybe we need to get someone to infiltrate mixmag and jockeyslut and whatever other mag there are.
Truth be told.
The rock scene certainly is bigger than the last few years, things come round again and as ever its the perception of a certain type of music that matters to these kids and also where all the other kids go. Remember that even though they go to these nights its a mini meat market to them. Just go and stand outside the under 18s night at the Wely Club in Hull and watch em roll out at 10pm.. its like watching the old days at the orbit empty out at 2am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Microdot
Well thats ccertainly a truism. What do you think about the reverse though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmode
IMHO i think variation is the key, along with the event. I dont think just having a diet of techno is the answer and hasnt been for years. Different genres of music at the same event makes things much nicer, House, Techno and DnB in one event? Wicked.
After all you dont see events with different bands on all playing EXACTLY the same genre of music in their sets do you? Rock, Thrash, EMO, Ska, Ballad.
this is exactly wot im firing at with this thread....youngin'z need it slapped into them sadly....i feel there aint enough happening to get our music across to the future ie the KIDS!!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Overfiend
after every event over the coarse of 4 years we have handed out at least 100 cd's to our punters mixed by ourselfs or guests gone by....shit hot way off gettin the randoms hooked on our music...think the big boys need to take time out do some free mix cd's and get um thrown out at gigs, leave um in records shops etc etc....?
I think it also happens at other nights as well not just Techno or Electro even it has happened at Drum n Bass nights where people only turn up to see big names play. I don't understand why people do that but as someone said in the thread it's not about the music anymore. They go to see the big names coz it's the cool thing to do so they can brag off to their so called cliky cool mates that they saw such & such play in a club. We now are living in a sheep Culture where people have no mind of their own & take any old shite that is thrown down by their throats by the media.Quote:
Originally Posted by RDR
Dance Music isn`t the BIG thing in music media at the moment.
Techno was never the Biggest draw in dance music, so we are in a situation of being out of the spotlight (unless you count minimal, which no matter how hard you fume and rant, is just a sub set of house, so there).
I think it`s a good thing.
The days of mashing out a bunch of compressed loops to the gurning masses are over.
We need to work harder at the music, as the fan base is reduced down to the hardcore, who really do "know the score" and want developement and interest from their music.
From out of this situation of high struggle, and techno going back underground, we will get frustration, conflict and desperation, and out of this there will be more push for the music to evolve and develop into something new and exciting, with attitude again, that might just cause a new spark to light, and the kids bored by faceless rock bands and the inherent music business conformity that comes with them, might well want to jump into the ambiguous world of independant dance music, and techno.
At least, that`s my wet dream.
Yeah, that's my wet dream too...
The wave will come round again.... it's a case of catching it when it does and riding the front of that wave before the bandwagon jumps on the back of it!!!:teach:
Thing is with waves is that no two are alike, and those who continue to succeed are the ones who took the time to change both their outlook, image and the way they presented their music both in terms of method of playing and the sort of music they played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_Fella!
Ive said it before, music IS the very essence of change, it revels in change, without change it wouldnt be exciting at all. Sure the wave will come back, but then no two waves are alike.
Techno in its very nature is supposed to be at the cutting edge of technology, yet I see so many people stuck in 1995, or 1990 or 1985... nothing wrong with that per-se but at what point does a person become an echo of technology rather than the sharpened blade of the music that made them sit up and take notice.
Or do we believe that we are different? Do we truly believe that we are nothing like the majority of bands who play covers or busk to make money so they can follow their art or song writing? What is a DJ if not a person who plays covers? When are we going to admit to ourselves that the special position we put ourselves in when we became "Techno" isnt really that special and the world owes us nothing... except that which we work hard enough to make for ourselves.
erm some o us still like going out and dancing to techno....uz old cunts can stay in all yeh want am gona strive to make tings better!
;)
Less with the old :lol: :hissyfit: :Angry:Quote:
Originally Posted by FuK-NuT
The C u Nt word is fair play.
Oh, and we DO run a techno night ;)
www.puretechno.co.uk
It`s not that simple though. That`s too reductionist.Quote:
Originally Posted by FuK-NuT
Otherwise why buy records at all, why not just buy a 909, turn it on, and let it run for 6 hours plugged into the soundsystem while all the gurners jump about.
People make the music, people play the music, people dance to the music people listen to the music, it`s an organic lifeform.
And the people making it need to be still excited for the people dancing to it to remain interested, and not get bored.
The people dancing still need to be energised by the music, and so expect the people making it to come up with the goods.
the people who appreciate it more solidly want to listen to it as well outside of the clubs, and expect more than just boom boom
the people making it need some kind of money to support them, the studios, and the vast amount of time required to be able to make music of good quality
etc etc etc etc etc
It all interacts.
It`s not easy to boil it down to....
We just wanna get mash up and jump about, who cares about the other stuff
It`s complex, and requires thought.
however it`s also fun and hedonistic.
reductionist!Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
now i've heard it all !!!
Exactly, and it's the producers and djs who nurtured their love for techno by sweating it out for endless hours on the dancefloor, transfixed by the beauty and power of the music, who end up translating their experiences into music and performances which do the same for othersQuote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
There's too many djs and producers who just sit at home scratching their arse and ego, the only time you see them in a club they're behind the decks sucking the promoters cock or handing out flyers, they should get on the dancefloor and maybe learn something
as far as this thread goes in general, i've seen loads of promoters **** up by booking big names and having no-one turn up, even back in the so-called glory days. It was invariably because they didn't know what they were doing, didn't know the local punters, probably never went out themselves and held the mistaken belief that spending loads of money on a big name would guarantee them hundreds of heads through the door. I'd say that's likely to be the case here too tbh
Big name djs with successful careers earning loads of money like speedy j are the end result of a succesful mature party scene/culture/whatever, they don't guarantee its existence in themselves, just by turning up and hey presto partytime
Quote:
Originally Posted by theledge
In other words or to put it short, No matter who the hell you have on the bill, you still have to promote the arse out of it to get the end result..
if you dont you WILL loose out
New methods of promotion are needed as well.
Relying on flyers alone just doesn`t cut it
to be honest i think the words promote the night kind of put the wrong spin on what is needed. if you mean loads of glossy flyers i don't agree, what is needed is the creation of a unique excitement factor, bubbling up via word of mouth....not just another manuactured night with a star name but a real local social gathering....this doesn't come from flyers, it can probably only be achieved by years of cultivating relationships and friendships across your local community, sweating it out on the dancefloor or doing whatever you do best, people will then listen to you and come to your party cos they're your friends and not just consumersQuote:
Originally Posted by Kells
and of course that makes it a pleasure for you too :)
you want people to come because it's going to be a great party, not because they're techno obsessives who can't miss a helping of speedy j
yeh its deffo not about how many flyers you get printed and how big ur posters are or if you book big names ! its all about making people belive they will have a great night ,... that said for big numbers got to have right djs on and they tend to cost money. i feel you really got to get a following before you book big djs as with anything you got to build reputation and techno is 100% like that as many of us have been to techno nights with some well known techno dj on and there are like 20 people in and its not nice really is it. and so people need to trust the event is gunna be going off and that takes word of mouth, thing is there are no trade secrets for this i dont think anyway hehe ! think its all about getting out there and making people beleve in you and make sure every night is rocking.
it's all about the banter
reckon local djs are great for most occasions, seems you've got a good scene for that in wales, still it's good to get a big name in if a) they're ****ing brilliant b) they've got a sound attitude c) they're worth what you pay them if not financially then in what else they bring with them
yeh deffo mate i get what you are saying, when i use to run events in wales we would have like one decent headliner every so often as there worht the money and help keep things fresh and are great at what they do. i think its great in more rural places to as there aint so much on so people make effort when something is on to turn out.
but now with the event i run in manchester we can afford to get the bigger names as its a much bigger sceane and place and mainly people are more willing to travel to the city.
ok i'm a bit behind the times, :laughing:
something i've noticed up here is that people don't even pay attention to flyers anymore. The only time they probably come into contact with them is in a flyer pack given out outside a venue, and we've all been in that cunted state, leaving a venue, and thought 'yeah, great, roach material'. Chances of people actually reading it, let alone remembering what they've read is pretty slim.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
Doesn't help that the council have introduced a license system (at high cost) to flyer in the city, so there aren't the saturday afternoon flyer teams.
We find well designed posters, in the right areas, do the job for us, with the internet promo to back it up. And as previously mentioned, building a 'community' around your event is the best way to spread word of mouth, and if you can do things this way, slowly getting bigger names on when you know you can afford it, you'll create a hype around your event that grows with you.
We're in a lucky position that our venue works with us, and for us. Not many promoters experience this with venues, and we've been messed about in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by theledge
trust me flyers are a very very VERY small part of a good promotion.!!! not many people get to actually see a flyer...
Im not gonna sit here and type exactly what i call a good promotion, as that is my business as im sure you can appreciate, but believe me, i DO NOT mean loads of glossy flyers Lol..and i speak out of years experience...
Of course an event has to always have some degree of excitement factor, this is why people wanna come aint it? then of course people talk about the event giving word of mouth.as you mention, this is another part of promotion.... i mean if a night looks boring or un imaganative why would peopke wanna go in the first place or re visit a second time and so on..., i am not sure if you really understand what promoting an event really involves, especially in hard citys like Leeds for instance...it will be very similar for any big City..
take this one for example, last time Beltram was at Joy, our mates had Dave Clarke and Technasia on the same night in the same town, beltram and clarke even thought this was mad, but it was out of our hands, our event was marketed first. (i dropped beltram off at clarkes hotel for drinks), both nights were a sucess but still, we had to work our asses of... as friends were split with decisions on where to go, so you deffo meed more than just friends to be your customers and as i stressed before flyers make for a tiny part of the whole package.
also can you explain why the word "promote" puts a wrong spin on things....if you dont promote the event, their will be No event hehe, and even if you cultivate hundereds of friends as you say, you still have to promote it to these people dont you..
Out of interest, have you actually ever put on a event? i dont ask this question in a funny way im just interested to see where you are at with this..
I really do think the event in question at the start of this thread is down to lack of promotion, and/or lack of promotion to the right people etc., its hard for me to judge as i know little of the promotors in question so i reserve my words...
Hope i have made some sense here to you
There are other factors to take into account when it comes to flyers as well, years ago it was possible to promote on the night with runners giving out flyers to wandering people town centres, now thats not possible in leeds and probably manchester as the city councils will be more than rapid in charging promoters hundreds, possibly thousands to clean up the mess left by non-intersted punters throwing them around the streets.
I'd be intersted in hearing peoples ideas on how to get around this.. wandering trade gathering... I know its a small part, but never-the-less can be quite lucrative on the door.
Its good to see people here putting "The Party" up at the top of this tree rather than the performer. I want to go to a safe, friendly, well catered for event. If i wanted randomness i would wait for free parties to rock up during the summer. The days of the meat market are over... at least as part of a techno event.
i dislike the word 'promotion' because to me it conjures up thoughts of glossy flyers, press releases and general marketing schtum, now of course these all have a place, i'm just saying that there's more to it than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kells
to be honest when i feel someone is trying to 'promote a night' at me, they usually get a polite smile followed by the short shrift they deserve. glossy flyers don't (usually) cut the mustard. i get excited about a night when there's a real word of mouth factor, my friends are going, when i feel there's going to be a great party (plus the bonus of seeing a great techno act at the same time)
of course creating this is easier said than done. hence why most new techno nights **** up.
to be honest i wasn't aiming the previous post at you, i probably shouldn't have carelessly quoted you. ;)
I cut my techno teeth in Leeds as it goes, lived there for years, ran techno nights at the west indian centre a few years ago. Think i left before Joy started but i heard you guys are doing a great job up there :)Quote:
i am not sure if you really understand what promoting an event really involves, especially in hard citys like Leeds for instance...it will be very similar for any big City..
Quote:
Originally Posted by theledge
Cool mate, what event did you run, Must have been a while as its almost 5 years Joy has been running (legally) now hehe (how time flies)
i was under the inpression you aimed it as me/us but i now realise you hadnt hehe, i had to make a stand as we put a hell of alot into our events, not just money but alot of (too much in fact) of our personal time, if we didnt their would, to put it simple, be no Joy...Leeds is extremely hard now for techno, almost imposibble to do it on a very regular basis, as i said in a previous post, Alot of leeds think they are listening to techno when they are not, they come to a place like Joy etc and crap themself hahaha.
You really have to work it hard and make sure you reach the correct people to market the event to. hence the reason its so important to know your crowd, i think this is a point you even touched on earlier..
Alot of our crowd travel from out of town.
also just to reply to RDR, we actually do have people flyer on the streets still, and get away with it :) Just!! but its very hard to do so, the council have really clamped down, we have also had fines for illegal fly postering and all sorts of other troubles in the past
:)
Yeah, very well put and I think everyone likes to believe that their particular genre of music is the most special on the planet - - and yet there is the reality that you mention...Quote:
Originally Posted by RDR
My motivation to do something in the world of Techno is purely because it is a type of music that for a long time would throw at you sounds and scapes that you have never heard before, and emotional journeys within a dance music format that I had never been on, which I struggled with at first, but then got the point and fell in love with...
What is the motivation these days to put in the large amount of effort, physically and emotionally, that is required to run a moderately successfull night... surely the initial motivation has to come from within in order to sustain the emotional drive that will keep your belief system in place when the going gets tough.??? ....hmmm:coffee:
Let's not forget 'The Advent' were on that night aswell, which I really enjoyed...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kells
T'was a good show and people were queuing early which was a good sign... the headline acts were being mentioned by people while I stood outside, so that goes to show that they had their pulling power...
I had a good shimmy round Leeds and it is true that you have your work cut out as almost everywhere is set up for beer culture and fashion parade, which out of pure association punters will integrate in to... which means you have to increase your promotional efforts to fight against the 'sheep' mentality'... hmmm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_Fella!
Advent was fantastic :)
and what you metion here regarding leeds is spot on mate, its good you have recognised this and im glad somebody else has now highlighted this on here, its going to get worse.....watch this space, leeds will be changing even more soon....im not sure its a good thing, well im sure its not, especially for the more purist club nights like Joy....
Theirs far too many sheep in the city, who dont go out for the music...massive shame..
it wasn't always like that was it, the entire city has gone upmarket over the last decade and the population has changed a lotQuote:
Originally Posted by Kells
even the students are of a better off and less fun-loving calibre these days due to the university doing so well
So true...Quote:
Originally Posted by theledge
i mind that night fuk-nut...
the guys promoting it hardly done any promotion for it at all. and i was always out flyering left right an centre.
i also think sucess comes in waves when it comes to doing a clubnight.
no matter who it is, some you win, some you don't.