The MP3 question.

howdy.

I'd guess that a lot of people here use Soulseek et al to download music etc. I'm just wondering what sort of effect this has when people just download mp3's burn them to CD and DJ out with a load of tracks they never paid for or didnt even bother trying to hunt down.

I dunno I seem to be in the minority i think when i say I very very very rarely have an mp3 on my PC that i didnt pay for\i dont own on vinyl. Thats not to say I might not download the odd track or album to find out about a particular artist but then i usually make a decision to bin it or buy it. Even doing this is rare for me though. Supporting the artist and all that.

I have just been enraged because I was told by someone on another forum (heated argument) that they only download music because 'to keep ahead of the pack' they need the latest tunes and by the time it comes out on wax the tune isnt worth playing no more. Obviuosly this person is a clown of the highest order but other explanations given were 'i wouldnt have bought it anyway' or 'i dont have much money to spend on music' (after paying the broadband bills/ buying a pc/ top of the range CD deck/drugs/booze etc tec)

Sorry what set me off was a good mate you used to buy lets say the odd bit of music being handed 100 gigs of tunes and proclaiming that he wont have to spend any more on music for the year. He's not a DJ or anything, just your average joe soap but he did by the odd CD before all this shit started.

I dunno. Is there an ethical argument against someone who downloads hideous amounts of music and then plays these track out on CD decks the whole time & proclaiming they are a great dj with an interest in the scene?

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Originally Posted by massplanck

I dunno. Is there an ethical argument against someone who downloads hideous amounts of music and then plays these track out on CD decks the whole time & proclaiming they are a great dj with an interest in the scene?

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Yes.

If they're playing stuff downloaded illegally, then they're stealing from record labels. Most small record labels exist on a knife-edge anyway, and rely on the very small amount of money they get from people buying their records in order to keep going.

If you aren't paying for your tunes, then you're contributing the the demise of small record labels.

I'm firmly in that camp myself TechMouse.

The scary thing was that in this argument i was pretty much on my own which is pretty disheartening for the future. Some people have different agendas though ie.. people who do spend money on music but download tracks that couldnt be found like (deleted classics) or stuff that goes for 100 euros on ebay or something. There is a small case for that alright but the problem is you cant go around inspecting peoples hardrives to find out how sincere they are.

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Originally Posted by massplanck

I'm firmly in that camp myself TechMouse.

The scary thing was that in this argument i was pretty much on my own which is pretty disheartening for the future. Some people have different agendas though ie.. people who do spend money on music but download tracks that couldnt be found like (deleted classics) or stuff that goes for 100 euros on ebay or something. There is a small case for that alright but the problem is you cant go around inspecting peoples hardrives to find out how sincere they are.

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In all fairness, I have played tunes off CD, some of which I have downloaded on MP3 - but there are only three circumstances...

1) It's unreleased - i.e. a friend's track, or something.

2) It's a joke - i.e. a one off, one play thing which I wouldn't buy normally.

3) I cannot, for the life of me, track down a copy on wax.

if were talking dance music then i have very few mp3's anyway, most of the mp3's i own are mix sets, and the small ammount of tracks i own, i own on vinyl too, one day i may get round to ripping all my vinyl as wav files, but to be honest it would take me ages, but i will do it someday.

as for other styles of music, then yes, i do sometimes try before i buy, but if i like it, i go and buy it

i got in a huge argument with a friend of mine about this. his attitude is that he's being counter-cultural or something by ripping music. i told him that when he downloads mp3s of electronic artists, he's not fighting some corporate evil, but attacking the feeble economy of dance music, and making it harder and harder for this whole thing to work.

but there is one other ethical point to make...

is this ethically different from using pirated software? if so, why?

I also rarely play tracks off cd.

If its something from a friend, or something I cannot find for the life of me (and believe me, I've tried, because there's only a handful of tunes I have been unable to track down) I'll have it on mp3 on my comp and may burn it to cd to play out.

Other than that however, I've always played just about everything on vinyl, because I know that without that kind of support (unless you run a good mp3 download service :) ) the music I love wouldn't be here in the same way it is today.

if anybody spots an artist doing this -playing out live in clubs earing cash from ripping folks off .....GRASS THEM UP.ther stealing from our scene and we want it to survive....dont we?

it is not different from using pirated software its the same thing
stealing

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Originally Posted by FILTERZ

it is not different from using pirated software its the same thing
stealing

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Agreed.

The difference is, I can afford to spend a bit of money on vinyl now and then.

I can't afford to spunk a load on software.

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Originally Posted by FILTERZ

it is not different from using pirated software its the same thing
stealing

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i agree, but micorosft are a bunch of money grabbing monopolising twats, allegedly :lol:

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Originally Posted by dan the acid man

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Originally Posted by FILTERZ

it is not different from using pirated software its the same thing
stealing

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i agree, but micorosft are a bunch of money grabbing monopolising twats, allegedly :lol:

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But then you could get into an ethics roundabout if you are illegally downloading a track made by an artist who used a cracked copy of fruityloops and a load of ripped samples :doh:

Work that one out... :shock: :lol:

im sure every artist has used an illegal piece of software at some time

When napster first hit the news a years back, I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and downloaded feckloads of stuff. To be fair, it wasnt ever really dance music though, more like if there was some band that only ever did one good tune and I couldent be asked to buy the whole album I'd just download that one tune.

And I used to have no doubt thousands of pounds worth of cracked software as well.

But I slowly felt more and more guilty about it, and eventually decided to be honest about it all, and not rip people off (it helps that I have more money now than I did then).

So now I dont. I am admittedly using a ripped off copy of Reason 3, but I will pay for it, I only got a copy of Reason 2.5 6 months ago or something (and thats a bought copy) and now that I know Reason 3 is worth a few more bucks I'll dish it out when I can.

As for MP3's, I am still on soulseek, and I do use it, but primarily to download mixes, which I dont have any moral/ethical issues with. I also download the occasional track to check it out, but if I like it, I'll buy the real thing. If I dont like it, although it may still live on my hard drive, I dont listen to it, and so dont really feel guilty about having downloaded it. Every so often stuff like this gets rounded up and deleted anyway.

As for playing out with tunes that I've downloaded, well, I have played a few old funk tracks and that sort of thing, but they are impossible to find on any format, and the artists who did them may well be dead anyway, so I dont get bothered about that, but thats about it.

Downloading and playing out new tunes is unforgiveable if you ask me. If someone slipped in a classic or two that are impossible to get on vinyl I could probably forgive them, but not if its something that could easily be bought in the local record shop.

i feel the same way, man...i can't use cracked software anymore because i know companies like propellerheads and native instruments make their whole livelihood off a very small number of sales. it does burn me up, though, that they price everything so high.

as for playing mp3s...i wouldn't do it because i don't want to steal from the community i feel a part of.

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Originally Posted by gumpy green

if anybody spots an artist doing this -playing out live in clubs earing cash from ripping folks off .....GRASS THEM UP.ther stealing from our scene and we want it to survive....dont we?

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I got worried about this the other night when I was playing. I bought a legal mp3 from Xpress Beats, and burnt it to CD to play out. If you seen me in the club about to play a CDR with the track name handwritten on it, how would you react. How can you tell wether or not I paid for that track?

My attitude is that i wont download music i have paid for at some time in my life.

I also download mixes off radio 1 that i missed, although i dont keep em forever, if i like a tune ill go and search for it, but i need to hear a tune a few times to decide as i prefer music with longevity rather than stuff that wont last.

As for MP3 - either the way in which we pay for it changes or the industry dies. simple.

It works like this.

Everyone who isnt in the business and has the access will rip it, it doesnt even appear on their radar as a crime.

hmmm.

How is downloading cracked software different from stealing music? Its not but....

I would hope that any producer who releases/makes money from their music/performances would be using legit software or at least making a decent effort towards sorting it out. Just look in the free VST plugins folder for some great stuff to use with your er.. :crackup: ed copy of cubase.

I suppose the difference is that :crackup: ed software is generally as unstable as **** where as a copy of a mp3 is well.. a perfect copy. The instabilty of cracked versions of software et al drives or should drive a sane headed person who wants to take his music a step further into shelling out. Anyone who takes the piss and is getting a bit of an income from music & doesnt think about this shout be shot with their own ball of shite. If software didnt exist would you still be making music regardless? yess ... but on what ? shit you saved for.

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Originally Posted by daviec

I got worried about this the other night when I was playing. I bought a legal mp3 from Xpress Beats, and burnt it to CD to play out. If you seen me in the club about to play a CDR with the track name handwritten on it, how would you react. How can you tell wether or not I paid for that track?

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We'd question you backstage afterwards with the help of the doormen.

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Originally Posted by massplanck

hmmm.

How is downloading cracked software different from stealing music? Its not but....

I would hope that any producer who releases/makes money from their music/performances would be using legit software or at least making a decent effort towards sorting it out. Just look in the free VST plugins folder for some great stuff to use with your er.. :crackup: ed copy of cubase.

I suppose the difference is that :crackup: ed software is generally as unstable as **** where as a copy of a mp3 is well.. a perfect copy. The instabilty of cracked versions of software et al drives or should drive a sane headed person who wants to take his music a step further into shelling out. Anyone who takes the piss and is getting a bit of an income from music & doesnt think about this shout be shot with their own ball of shite. If software didnt exist would you still be making music regardless? yess ... but on what ? shit you saved for.

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I dont know what cracked versions you have been using, but the ones i have used work perfectly. A crack only bypasses the registration issues and has nothing to do with the core program...

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Originally Posted by massplanck

hmmm.

I would hope that any producer who releases/makes money from their music/performances would be using legit software or at least making a decent effort towards sorting it out.

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trouble is it's a bit hard when you don't make any money because everyone downloads your music..

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Originally Posted by Francisco Scaramanga

When napster first hit the news a years back, I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and downloaded feckloads of stuff. To be fair, it wasnt ever really dance music though, more like if there was some band that only ever did one good tune and I couldent be asked to buy the whole album I'd just download that one tune.

And I used to have no doubt thousands of pounds worth of cracked software as well.

But I slowly felt more and more guilty about it, and eventually decided to be honest about it all, and not rip people off (it helps that I have more money now than I did then).

So now I dont. I am admittedly using a ripped off copy of Reason 3, but I will pay for it, I only got a copy of Reason 2.5 6 months ago or something (and thats a bought copy) and now that I know Reason 3 is worth a few more bucks I'll dish it out when I can.

As for MP3's, I am still on soulseek, and I do use it, but primarily to download mixes, which I dont have any moral/ethical issues with. I also download the occasional track to check it out, but if I like it, I'll buy the real thing. If I dont like it, although it may still live on my hard drive, I dont listen to it, and so dont really feel guilty about having downloaded it. Every so often stuff like this gets rounded up and deleted anyway.

As for playing out with tunes that I've downloaded, well, I have played a few old funk tracks and that sort of thing, but they are impossible to find on any format, and the artists who did them may well be dead anyway, so I dont get bothered about that, but thats about it.

Downloading and playing out new tunes is unforgiveable if you ask me. If someone slipped in a classic or two that are impossible to get on vinyl I could probably forgive them, but not if its something that could easily be bought in the local record shop.

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You can upgrade 2.5 to 3 for about £70 can't you?

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Originally Posted by IQ

I dont know what cracked versions you have been using, but the ones i have used work perfectly.

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I like the way you left the urls on your sig so they can chase you up without much bother... ;)

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Originally Posted by crime

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Originally Posted by massplanck

hmmm.

I would hope that any producer who releases/makes money from their music/performances would be using legit software or at least making a decent effort towards sorting it out.

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trouble is it's a bit hard when you don't make any money because everyone downloads your music..

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Yeah. Thats the paradox i'm afraid. Then again you couldnt make music if you didnt have the software ( if you use software that is)

Thing is. Its probably about time every techno track in history was put into a huge databass where people downloaded a track for say 99c. I dunno something like an underground itunes with every release ever available.

Lets say someone want the last four release on Crime records on mp3 format and is more than willing to pay... where can the punter go to to get this?

How is Warps mp3\album download thingy doing does anybody know?

uTunes?

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Originally Posted by crime

trouble is it's a bit hard when you don't make any money because everyone downloads your music..

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there's money in techno? ;)

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Originally Posted by massplanck

Thing is. Its probably about time every techno track in history was put into a huge databass where people downloaded a track for say 99c. I dunno something like an underground itunes with every release ever available.

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Excellent idea. I would love to organize something of this sort. However, i believe you would run into a number of issues:

1) First and foremost, financing. A project of this magnitude will REQUIRE a hefty sum of captial to pay for research, contracting, licensing, legalities, insurance, server space, web fees,and the list goes on and on. One could posit that you [the company] may decide to provide the infrastructure, but the majority of the "lesser known" labels approach you with their music to be hosted and licensed, but this is of minimal effect to the overall cost in order for something like this to be profitable (yes, it has to be profitable for something of this magnitude must not be simply sustainable, but able to generate earnings). Think about it, major companies such as Napster, Realnetworks, Apple, and most recently Yahoo, all provide "itunes" style services, yet only the two larger-cap companies are the only ones returning positive earnings and they are all publicly traded (i.e. shares are held by the public thus generating substantial amounts of workable capital)!!! Moreover, those positive earnings for Apple and Yahoo are not related to their download services, but other products and services.

2) Politics. Yes, politics. Who will and won't want to be a part of it? Who controls it? Who is affected? How are they affected? Will the heads from Detroit support it? Or for that matter will heads from different geographic areas support it and others not? How will it be advertised? Will it be marketed? Does the undergroundness of the music get lost in all the red tape? Politics will no doubt play a part in a massive database of catalog after catalog of years worth of underground music. I mean look at what happened to DEMF and what it has evolved into with regard to the political implications...

3) Finally, major labels/big business. Let's say a major holdings firm accepts the most astounding business proposal ever to fund such a project. Now imagine something like this being profitable in say 5 years. Eventually big business will eventually need to do [and what they already do]what they call on Wall Street "growing their company" by "mergers and acquisitions." If something that is a profitable commodity to say Universal, BMG, Sony, or EMI approaches the owner(s) of such a label with a ridiculous offer (which may only be fractional to the conglomerate) with a huge settlement buyout, stock options and the like, well, let's be realistic folks, I think everyone has their price. Now MANY will argue against this point, because of the whole "screw the man, f*ck the establishment, punk snot dead" schpiel, but those people would be opposed to something like this in the first place.

I hate to sound like a jaded pessimist and I apologize for getting off topic, but out of everything I've read so far, this stuck out the most and it inspired me to write.

Plus I've been writing essays on topics in metaphysics, ethics, Nietzsche, and Spinoza nonstop for the past 3 weeks so arguing seems to be flowing freely. :cool:

Send me some of those reports Joe.
Also Great points from a monopoly perspective. :clap:

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Originally Posted by Joseph Isaac

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Originally Posted by massplanck

Thing is. Its probably about time every techno track in history was put into a huge databass where people downloaded a track for say 99c. I dunno something like an underground itunes with every release ever available.

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Excellent idea. I would love to organize something of this sort. However, i believe you would run into a number of issues:

1) First and foremost, financing. A project of this magnitude will REQUIRE a hefty sum of captial to pay for research, contracting, licensing, legalities, insurance, server space, web fees,and the list goes on and on. One could posit that you [the company] may decide to provide the infrastructure, but the majority of the "lesser known" labels approach you with their music to be hosted and licensed, but this is of minimal effect to the overall cost in order for something like this to be profitable (yes, it has to be profitable for something of this magnitude must not be simply sustainable, but able to generate earnings). Think about it, major companies such as Napster, Realnetworks, Apple, and most recently Yahoo, all provide "itunes" style services, yet only the two larger-cap companies are the only ones returning positive earnings and they are all publicly traded (i.e. shares are held by the public thus generating substantial amounts of workable capital)!!! Moreover, those positive earnings for Apple and Yahoo are not related to their download services, but other products and services.

2) Politics. Yes, politics. Who will and won't want to be a part of it? Who controls it? Who is affected? How are they affected? Will the heads from Detroit support it? Or for that matter will heads from different geographic areas support it and others not? How will it be advertised? Will it be marketed? Does the undergroundness of the music get lost in all the red tape? Politics will no doubt play a part in a massive database of catalog after catalog of years worth of underground music. I mean look at what happened to DEMF and what it has evolved into with regard to the political implications...

3) Finally, major labels/big business. Let's say a major holdings firm accepts the most astounding business proposal ever to fund such a project. Now imagine something like this being profitable in say 5 years. Eventually big business will eventually need to do [and what they already do]what they call on Wall Street "growing their company" by "mergers and acquisitions." If something that is a profitable commodity to say Universal, BMG, Sony, or EMI approaches the owner(s) of such a label with a ridiculous offer (which may only be fractional to the conglomerate) with a huge settlement buyout, stock options and the like, well, let's be realistic folks, I think everyone has their price. Now MANY will argue against this point, because of the whole "screw the man, f*ck the establishment, punk snot dead" schpiel, but those people would be opposed to something like this in the first place.

I hate to sound like a jaded pessimist and I apologize for getting off topic, but out of everything I've read so far, this stuck out the most and it inspired me to write.

Plus I've been writing essays on topics in metaphysics, ethics, Nietzsche, and Spinoza nonstop for the past 3 weeks so arguing seems to be flowing freely. :cool:

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I don't think thats needed. Even if labels, even vinyl labels release all their back-catalog through random online stores, all thats required is a central, text based database to link everything up. With search functions and sorted by categories. Discogs style.

You search up a label and all links to any online stores selling their music would come up. Simple and easy and not run by anyone with a particular agenda. NO POLITICS.

it would be very cool. i know i'd pay $1 for mp3s...

but...practically speaking...how would labels deal with all the paperwork and credit card shizznizzle for $1 or $2 orders? i mean, with itunes, it's one bill for all the songs you buy. this one could potentially have like 14 different P.O.s for a single order...

i'm exhausted and don't know if that came out coherent...am i making sense?

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Originally Posted by IQ

I dont know what cracked versions you have been using, but the ones i have used work perfectly. A crack only bypasses the registration issues and has nothing to do with the core program...

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I dunno man.

These programmers are getting smarter and smarter, and I know for a fact that a lot of high end software these days relies upon copy protection which de-optimizes the code unless a valid key or dongle etc. is in place.

I'm convinced this is the case with Cubase SX 2 and upwards.

Possibly this is negligible on a high-end PC, but when you're at the lower end of the system requirements spectrum, you can really feel it.

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

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Originally Posted by IQ

I dont know what cracked versions you have been using, but the ones i have used work perfectly. A crack only bypasses the registration issues and has nothing to do with the core program...

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I dunno man.

These programmers are getting smarter and smarter, and I know for a fact that a lot of high end software these days relies upon copy protection which de-optimizes the code unless a valid key or dongle etc. is in place.

I'm convinced this is the case with Cubase SX 2 and upwards.

Possibly this is negligible on a high-end PC, but when you're at the lower end of the system requirements spectrum, you can really feel it.

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I tend to agree. I cant be bothered with all the messing around anymore. I'm saving up for my legit copies of cubase + abeleton.

also. Is it possible that software companies share cracked registration numbers information amoungst themselves and give each other the go ahead to 'ruin' cracked software when the user is installing another app. For a few mates of mine this seems to have been the case when abelton suddenly stopped working and started complaining about need a correct registration key. It knew it was a cracked copy... but only after some new VST plugins were installed.

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Originally Posted by massplanck

Yeah. Thats the paradox i'm afraid. Then again you couldnt make music if you didnt have the software ( if you use software that is)

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Well, as I say, I use hardware, bottom line, the way I look at it is it's no different to people copying tapes back in the day, there's no point debating what you're going to do about it when it's impossible to do anything about it.. the only thing I can think of that might actually work to some extent is to make the CDr manufacturers and manufacturers of things like final scratch, MP3 players etc to charge a levy on their products to contribute to people who are having their stuff copied (Like what happened with blank tapes in the 80s).. then what will happen is the majors will cream all this money leaving the small artists/labels with zilch.. thiings such as "databases of every techno track" just ain't going to work, who is going to compile it when there isn't much money in it? My thoughts personally over all of this is if it ever got so bad that I couldn't make ANY money out of records I would stop releasing and only play live, and play a fresh live set every time, then leave the mp3 crew to do my releasing and promoting for me.. I earn most of my money from performance anyway, so really it doesn't make much odds..

the bottom line is, you are never going to stop people downloading, so there's no point in worrying about it, if your music is really good people will buy it anyway...

I dunno. Maybe we cant complain about mp3 downloads untill someone actually comes up with a decent solution where people can actually pay for them.

hmmm. what about mp3 licensing being given to online shops & downtown stores to sell music as mp3? Leave it in their hands to sort out the nitty gritty.

I dunno crime. you might have a few more quid in your pocket if it was possible to legitimately download your music from somewhere.

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Originally Posted by crime

the only thing I can think of that might actually work to some extent is to make the CDr manufacturers and manufacturers of things like final scratch, MP3 players etc to charge a levy on their products to contribute to people who are having their stuff copied (Like what happened with blank tapes in the 80s)

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They do this already.

Consumer CD-R's have a small tax on them.

Also, I think somewhere in Europe (Scandanavia possibly?) recently introduced a per-GB tax on mp3 players, which has done stupid things to the price of some units - e.g. the 40GB iPods. Which is, IMHO, dumb.

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

Also, I think somewhere in Europe (Scandanavia possibly?) recently introduced a per-GB tax on mp3 players, which has done stupid things to the price of some units - e.g. the 40GB iPods. Which is, IMHO, dumb.

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Why? is it dumb I mean... explain why it's dumb...

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Originally Posted by massplanck

I dunno crime. you might have a few more quid in your pocket if it was possible to legitimately download your music from somewhere.

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Possibly, but legal downloads are not going to stop illegal downloads are they? As I say, if you're going to lose sleep over this issue, you'll be an insomniac for the rest of your life, cos it's not going to go away...
And as I say, if the music is strong enough, you'll sell ok, not everyone in the world downloads music.....

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Originally Posted by crime

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

Also, I think somewhere in Europe (Scandanavia possibly?) recently introduced a per-GB tax on mp3 players, which has done stupid things to the price of some units - e.g. the 40GB iPods. Which is, IMHO, dumb.

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Why? is it dumb I mean... explain why it's dumb...

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if you were using your ipod to only put on legal albums you owned then you have the rights to the music and shouldnt be paying a anuther fee.

just make records and yall be alright.....tons of djs kicking about who luv wax and no piricy atol.

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Originally Posted by crime

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

Also, I think somewhere in Europe (Scandanavia possibly?) recently introduced a per-GB tax on mp3 players, which has done stupid things to the price of some units - e.g. the 40GB iPods. Which is, IMHO, dumb.

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Why? is it dumb I mean... explain why it's dumb...

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Why should a 40GB iPod be subject to twice the tax of a 20GB iPod? What if I promise to only use 20GB, and use the rest of the storage to move round data files to and from work?

Also, what about other caveats... for example: if I load my iPod with only tunes which are either my own, or those of friends whose permission I have - should I be able to claim my tax back? What about mixsets, freely downloadable from the net?

On a related note - how will they guarantee me, the consumer, that my tax is going to the correct people? Why should Britney-effing-Spears get a small percentage of my tax contribution, when I doubt that (for example) Blackout Audio will get a penny. It's a stupid, impossible-to-accurately-regulate, DUMB system.

It's dumb because they're trying to force the existing outdated music business model (i.e. you give us money, we give you music in some format) onto a market which has a completely different dynamic.

The people pulling the strings at the top of the entertainment business tried this shit on with cassette decks when they came out. Courts said "no". They tried it on when VCRs came out - "It'll kill the movie industry!" they screamed. Courts said "no". They tried it on with CD writers when they became more widespread. And now that everyone and their mother has access to broadband internet and it's easy to get free mp3, they're trying to squeeze every last penny out AGAIN.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - sooner or later some bright spark who's far smarter than me will come up with a way of getting this right, and will make a shitload of money for his trouble.

ah, I getcha, like if all your music is legit why should you pay this extra levy? fair point...

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Originally Posted by gumpy green

Make records and yall be alright.....tons of djs kicking about who luv wax and no piricy atol.

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well, this is what I think.. Life is somewhat easier in germany so I don't get so riled i.e. thinking I'm missing out on $$$ etc, APART from the beurocracy, trying to go legit here at the mo, it's like a scene out of the film Brasil going to the finazamt to get a tax number.. at least everything works here pretty much..

I think my point is that the next generation are starting to ditch wax (dont hit me) for CD decks because then you can spin pretty much anything in the way you spin vinyl. They have also been born into the whole P2P where as most older producers\dj's think vinyl is gonna last forever or something. As for the 'its will kill the music industry' issue well yes it could if its not sorted out soon. The difference when you copied tapes back in the day was that it was a job in itself to find the person with the album & then to copy the tape. Now you have pretty much every album ever free at the click of the mouse.

Like i said i got riled over this after a DJ told me he burns latest releases from P2P to CD and then plays them out. This is the way the kids are starting to do things unfortunatley. As for people handing each other Gbs and Gbs of stuff... thats a bit more than just 'copying a tape'.

I dunno. Live performances & merchandising seems to the sure fire way to bring in a bit of cash. Doesnt mean the music shouldnt either though.

How is WARPS online mp3\album download thingy doing (second time i have asked this) . Its Seems like a good model for things.

bottom line is...PAY FOR YOUR MUSIC, KEEP TECHNO ALIVE!

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Originally Posted by Komplex

I don't think thats needed. Even if labels, even vinyl labels release all their back-catalog through random online stores, all thats required is a central, text based database to link everything up. With search functions and sorted by categories. Discogs style.

You search up a label and all links to any online stores selling their music would come up. Simple and easy and not run by anyone with a particular agenda. NO POLITICS.

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Hmm sounds interesting. However, the streamlining of backed catalogs of thousands of labels into a single entity is overlooked with this approach. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, just pointing out some problems with it.

Massplanck suggested a single entity that has the database of all the music. If I understand you correctly, the music will be spread out amongst multiple online "mp3 stores" where you go a "main" text-based site to search for whatever track/catalog and it returns results from the number of mp3 stores where the catalogs/tracks are available with urls linked to the sites. That seems okay, but it for

1) its not in reference to what massplanck suggested and

2) there still exists a facet of control/power meaning someone/some entity will still have to develop the text-based site and create simple search functions or license searching from google . This still falls under the problem of financing and secondly, if it is something that isn't profitable or even sustainable, it may difficult to find someone who is willing to devote daily upkeep of such a site (open source maybe?, nah too many problems with that).

3) I was discussing an "itunes" style site and what problems would arise from it. The concept was to have a massive database of nearly all backstock and current stock of underground techno. There are advantages to this approach for all hindrances of the aforementioned model are minimized such as the payment system...who gets paid? How much? How are they paid? Who takes care of the licensing? If I understand your approach correctly then it seems each individual website that has the tracks/catalogs would have to handle this on their own. If there are 10+ sites, then this could create a number of financial and communication barriers especially with artists and labels getting paid.

I'm not bashing your idea, but i have been thinking about doing something like this for quite some time and it seems terribly difficult...

Thoughts?

hmm...like gemm for mp3s...but i still think there is a serious problem when it comes to accounting. how are all the little labels and stores going to process tons and tons of orders for $1 tracks? for little labels, profit margins might need to be a but higher...

as an artist you could be safe about it .......release only cd's that are mixed.........and all unmixed tracks on vinyl.....if some asshole wants to mix a MP3 ripped from vinyl than thats his lack of style and need for sound quality.....(no offense if any of you do). I personally am not satisfied with the sound quality of cd's and am still hoping that a more than stereo, higher freqeuncy/bitrate medium would come out....and be accepted.
I just recently built a studio with a friend and we went all legal...which I am proud of. I have no problem with cracked software ...just to try something. But I hate to say it ....not a soul is gonna install my legal software .....and I rarely lend legal CD's to people ....cause most poeple steal like there's no tomorrow..........even starving artists......
Hey man/woman ...you got the itch and not the cash ....by all means do what you need to do to make some choons........but for god sakes have respect for yourself .....your peers ...and the music ....and pay the people that make it possible for you.

:clap:

a man wth passion.

I know cataloging every single techno track ever released would be a littel bit too much but..

maybe we should just wipe the slate clean and figure out how little techno labels can start start pulling together to sell mp3's under some sort of umbrella.

You cant complain about people dowloading stolen music if the only way to download it is by stealing if you know what i mean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by massplanck

How is WARPS online mp3\album download thingy doing (second time i have asked this) . Its Seems like a good model for things.

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Bleep.com?
Not sure, probably ok I would have thought, I mean it must generate some revenue, but I would imagine it's an older audience that are interested in warp, so are maybe more respectful ofpaying for stuff... as I say though you can come up with this way and that way to get around the problem, but the bottom line is it's never going to stop....