New to producing techno - pls give me advice

Hi everyone,

I am new here and new to producing techno.

I'd be really grateful if any one can give me some tps on producing techno. I know it is fairly experimental but is there any framework e.g. emphasis on kicks, hats, structure (always 4/4), tempo etc.

I am not completely new to production although I would still class myself as a beginner. I have been experimenting with different styles in the last 1 1/2 years and have amassed some quality samples (hundreds of funk breaks, drum hits incl. 808 & 909).

I am running Cubase Studiocase but am limited to what I can do with my sampler as it is Halion SE (basically a sample player - limited mapping). I have got a couple of decent soft synths.

I have been producing @ 160 bpm for my last two tracks a la DJ Assault but want to do some 'serious' techno tunes now.

Thanx in advance and look forward to any replies!

a wise man said it best when he said

http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/forum...highlight=tips

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Originally Posted by stjohn

a wise man said it best when he said

http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/forum...highlight=tips

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On it - Cheers

Listen to people you like very carefully then copy them

Best way to learn, about drum programming, track structure, the sounds used etc etc

And get a copy of reason - learning with reason is fast, intuitive, incredibly powerful and a good introduction to how hardware works and how machines work with each other. Get a book to get you up to speed

cubase is powerful but a bit unwieldy when you are starting out, takes a while to get quick with it. You want to be as creative as possible, not mired down in the technical complexities of your programs.

And come here loads! This is probably the greatest techno production resource in the world.

Welcome to the board mate

Halion is a terrible sampler, I have to agree :( For a while it's all I had too, though now I'm using Native Instruments Kontakt 2 which is incredibly powerful compared to just about anything else on the market really. Appart from your sequencer, this is one of the few packages I reckon is worth shellig out cash for. Heck you can even use its auxilary busses for external effects processing if you want! Check out KVR audio (just google it) for lots of good free plugins. There is ALLOT of really high quality stuff out there if you're prepared to dig - kinda like collecting records :-)

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Originally Posted by Jay Pace

Listen to people you like very carefully then copy them

Best way to learn, about drum programming, track structure, the sounds used etc etc

And get a copy of reason - learning with reason is fast, intuitive, incredibly powerful and a good introduction to how hardware works and how machines work with each other. Get a book to get you up to speed

cubase is powerful but a bit unwieldy when you are starting out, takes a while to get quick with it. You want to be as creative as possible, not mired down in the technical complexities of your programs.

And come here loads! This is probably the greatest techno production resource in the world.

Welcome to the board mate

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Amen to everything you said brother...

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Originally Posted by danielmarshall

Amen to everything you said brother...

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yeah, especially to the "Listen to people you like very carefully then copy them" part.

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Originally Posted by Miromiric

yeah, especially to the "Listen to people you like very carefully then copy them" part.

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is that sarcasm ? :laughing:

sorry if its not, but's it's actually a good way to learn, then once upto speed and you feel comfortable, that's when you can start shaping your own sound and feel.

in my opinion of course

Got to start somewhere. Nobody really starts out creating innovative, original work.

Best starting off by getting to grips with people you rate, understanding how they have put tracks together and why, and then going off and doing your own thing once you have mastered the sound a little bit more.

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Originally Posted by Jay Pace

Listen to people you like very carefully then copy them

Best way to learn, about drum programming, track structure, the sounds used etc etc

And get a copy of reason - learning with reason is fast, intuitive, incredibly powerful and a good introduction to how hardware works and how machines work with each other. Get a book to get you up to speed

cubase is powerful but a bit unwieldy when you are starting out, takes a while to get quick with it. You want to be as creative as possible, not mired down in the technical complexities of your programs.

And come here loads! This is probably the greatest techno production resource in the world.

Welcome to the board mate

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THanks for the tips everyone and the warm welcome, will definitely stick around for tips and discussion.

Slightly OT but am asking Santa to bring me an Arp Oddity to make some old skool sounds...

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Originally Posted by Jay Pace

Got to start somewhere. Nobody really starts out creating innovative, original work.

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Yeah I dunno about that mate. In my case I've found that I've become less creative as I've moved into a (and I'm ashamed to admit it) rut five years down the track... Sound quality wise, things are a billion times better than early attempts of course, but I think I was trying just about anything in the old days whereas nowadays I'm starting to sound a little formulaic. I kinda long for the days when the ideas came thick and fast - only I had no idea how to translate them into real sounds. Now I have the opposite problem.

Maybe I'm just getting stupider as I get older :-|

I know what I need though. A production partner to kick my ass

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Originally Posted by Jay Pace

Got to start somewhere. Nobody really starts out creating innovative, original work.

Best starting off by getting to grips with people you rate, understanding how they have put tracks together and why, and then going off and doing your own thing once you have mastered the sound a little bit more.

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Yeah, it takes time to make killer tracks - but I have never heard it said that you should copy your favourite producer first, and then find your own route?? It's inevitable that any of us that produce will be in some way influenced by our favourite producers, but to go in and step-by-step COPY someone else's work is a terrible way to start, and to be honest is pretty extraordinary advice for you to be giving someone here. Ok, so maybe you or the majority of techno producers operate this way, but it's a pretty sad way to go about things in my opinion and highlights a lack of ambition and desire to experiment.

You're basically giving this guy the advice to be a sheep for a year or two, and then to start being himself? Yeah, really good reasoning in that - probably the biggest load of bullony I've read here in a while I'm sorry to say.

it's actually half good, half bad advice. I dont think he means literaly copy their sounds, their riffs etc etc, but studying certain artists sequencing or tracking down will do a person wonders who is just starting out, as getting whole tracks down and laid out in a comprehendable sequence can be the real pit fall for alot of new people starting out. It certainly was for me, but being a DJ anyway helped me overcome that quickly.

learning how to effectively build up a track to a break, and work a breakdown, is incredibly difficult starting out. You listen to people like Speedy J and i tell thee he did not start doing those massive, intense breakdowns the first time he ever opened a sequencer and a synth.

Dont copy a persons sound no. Thats a massive no no, but there is absolutley nothing wrong with studying other producers actual techniques and applying them to your own learning. More often than not this is when people can spot differences in the techniques and start to build their own way of working.

but yeah i think it was worded a little wrong maybe ;)

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Originally Posted by Sunil

Yeah, it takes time to make killer tracks - but I have never heard it said that you should copy your favourite producer first, and then find your own route.....

You're basically giving this guy the advice to be a sheep for a year or two, and then to start being himself? Yeah, really good reasoning in that - probably the biggest load of bullony I've read here in a while I'm sorry to say.

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Eh? Thats not what I said at all. Don't put words in my mouth man...

I recommended listening to people very carefully and figure out how they did what they did, as it one of the best ways to learn. Learn by example.

Pretty basic advice really.

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Originally Posted by Jay Pace

Eh? Thats not what I said at all. Don't put words in my mouth man...

I recommended listening to people very carefully and figure out how they did what they did, as it one of the best ways to learn. Learn by example.

Pretty basic advice really.

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Nah, it is effectively what you were saying. You probably don't realise it yourself at this stage, if that's your approach to production, but your advice does amount to what I said above.

You said , very clearly, to listen to other people's tracks and *copy them*. From *their* drum programming, to *their* track structure, to *their* sounds.

Y'know this probably is good advice in some ways, but not the kind of advice anyone who wants to stand out or make original music, should be taking.

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Originally Posted by Sunil

Nah, it is effectively what you were saying. You probably don't realise it yourself at this stage, if that's your approach to production, but your advice does amount to what I said above.

You said , very clearly, to listen to other people's tracks and *copy them*. From *their* drum programming, to *their* track structure, to *their* sounds.

Y'know this probably is good advice in some ways, but not the kind of advice anyone who wants to stand out or make original music, should be taking.

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I really don't know what stage you think Jay is at? I mean we could talk about personal taste all day but his productions are quality. Imo. An i am sure many will agree.

Regarding the 'copying' issue. It's tried and tested and people have been successfully doing so forever. And not only in music. Learn the rules before you break them etc. I will stop here.

FFS

I didn't say anything about copying step by step, or being a sheep.

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Originally Posted by jay pace

Listen to people you like very carefully then copy them
Best way to learn, about drum programming, track structure, the sounds used etc etc

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Pls note the best way to learn ABOUT part

If you are new to producing techno (NB the title of the thread), and you particularly like one style - detroit, acid, minimal etc its important to understand how the tracks are put together.

This is what was actually asked in the first place:

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I'd be really grateful if any one can give me some tps on producing techno. I know it is fairly experimental but is there any framework e.g. emphasis on kicks, hats, structure (always 4/4), tempo etc.

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This is why I suggested maybe taking the time to desconstruct what other people are doing. Deconstructing other people's work gives you the skills and knowledge how to build your own.

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You probably don't realise it yourself at this stage, if that's your approach to production

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Thats a ****ing arrogant statement.

This is a production forum where people come to learn and share.
You're doing neither.

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Originally Posted by Jay Pace

I didn't say anything about copying step by step, or being a sheep.

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Ok, well it seemed to amount to the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Jay Pace

Thats a ****ing arrogant statement.

This is a production forum where people come to learn and share.
You're doing neither.

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I'm not being arrogant by saying that (maybe it was a bit strong though), but your methods aren't the ones many other producers would choose or would want to choose. That said, I do see the merits of what you are saying in some ways, just seems a very plaguristic and unexciting approach in my opinion - maybe it works for some people though?

I have to say from experience, that the people I have known who have tried to take this route i.e. Making a Vitalic style tune, or a Plastikman tune or whatever, have been those that ended up sounding very unexciting.

Perhaps I should have given some advice, but I got sidetracked!

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Originally Posted by loopdon

I really don't know what stage you think Jay is at? I mean we could talk about personal taste all day but his productions are quality. Imo. An i am sure many will agree.
.

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I'm not questioning the quality of his music or production level, I just didn't agree with the advice.

Why nitpick semantics Sunil. He clarified what he said, and then you bitch on about it. ****, some people..

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Originally Posted by danielmarshall

Why nitpick semantics Sunil. He clarified what he said, and then you bitch on about it. ****, some people..

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From what I read in your previous post it wasn't like you were in 100% agreement either. I had my point of view and made it pretty clearly I thought. In hindsight, I acknowledged that I may have zoned in too much on certain bits of what Jay said. It wasn't like my comments have been very warmly received here, Jay didn't like what I said, and you're the second person jumping in to defend him, when it's pretty apparant that he can do that himself already. ****, some people ;)

Wow - people mad passionate about there shizzle over here.

Just to say that the production tips thread has been helpful so far - I am experimenting with tuning tracks and the pic showing parts of the track in a frequency diagram has helped me know what basic elements go into a track.

At the mo I am stuck into a rut of using funk breaks and hits - gonna start using drum machines.

yup, this is the greatest techno production forum in the world....

haha

Is it wrong if this thread gave me an erection?

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

Is it wrong if this thread gave me an erection?

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i think loopdon posted a VST that does that.

wow guys chill out!!!

god you have to love the passion in music making :cheese:

you know what? i learnt some of my biggest lessons in the first few years i produced copying other ppl's arrangements. i knew f all but i actually remember getting all the sounds in the sequencer just like i heard on a track i loved, then arranging them in exactly the same god damn way. damn the track rocked!!!... but then i thought.. it's not me.... i want to know more...

stage 2....

you see, once you're past the learning stage, you actually want to be innovative and make your own sound. and that's where the fun starts. imho you have to really learn synthesis, you have to really learn mastering... manuals, mags, internet, read read read.. it neardy as hell but you have to learn it there's no other way.. anyway back to the the topic.....

you want some advice? i agree with jay....

either you read up on everything (and i'm talking books and books and books for years and then make a track) or you have fun and make as you go - copy your fave producers if you have to... understand what it is that makes a good techno track.... then you will get to that stage i am talking about - where you want to be original....

anyway heheh

can't wait to hear the results mate.. please post them here :)

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

wow guys chill out!!!

god you have to love the passion in music making :cheese:

you know what? i learnt some of my biggest lessons in the first few years i produced copying other ppl's arrangements. i knew f all but i actually remember getting all the sounds in the sequencer just like i heard on a track i loved, then arranging them in exactly the same god damn way. damn the track rocked!!!... but then i thought.. it's not me.... i want to know more...

stage 2....

you see, once you're past the learning stage, you actually want to be innovative and make your own sound. and that's where the fun starts. imho you have to really learn synthesis, you have to really learn mastering... manuals, mags, internet, read read read.. it neardy as hell but you have to learn it there's no other way.. anyway back to the the topic.....

you want some advice? i agree with jay....

either you read up on everything (and i'm talking books and books and books for years and then make a track) or you have fun and make as you go - copy your fave producers if you have to... understand what it is that makes a good techno track.... then you will get to that stage i am talking about - where you want to be original....

anyway heheh

can't wait to hear the results mate.. please post them here :)

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Cheers - have made a few tracks that are not really tecno but as soon as I do something I am happy with I will post.

As mentioned above I am not a complete beginner - more new to techno production.

Will post something up when I am happy with it - found a 303 emulator VST last nite so it may be acidy...

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Originally Posted by stjohn

i think loopdon posted a VST that does that.

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haha