Mixing Hardstyle

Anyone else get frustrated at the some what bizarre layouts of hardstyle tunes? I mean the first section of tunes is often not heard as its being used during the mixing process, yet hard style producers seem to go out of their way to have intros that consist of small and weak sounding pecrussion before a huge shift in to a massive kick drum and bass. It makes smooth flowing mixing very very awkward...

With Hard Trance I can hear the pattern and without thinking and cue it off at the right timing points. I find with hard style tunes I have to learn each tracks specific mixing points much more closely than I've ever needed to with trance. I mean take Ultrasonic - H.C.M.F on Subway... what a damn well awkward track to time it nicely. A very very short intro and suddnely BOOM BOOM. It's not the actual mixing of it which is a problem, its just irratating to me personally as I love to have mixes that cross over at the breakdowns with a smooth and well timed shift of the bass eq on the mixer. Hard Style mixing seems to be tailored to the world cutting out tracks before the next one kicks in... I HATE HOW THOSE MIXES SOUND! It gives a stop and start feel to the mix and I've always felt mixing is about blending tracks together. I've always admired M-Zone's mixing style because he brings tracks in so early that it keeps the beats following.

Admittedly, two hardstyle beats on top of each other can sound a bit cluttered or wierd. But that's where the eq's come in to sort that out. I mean if you take Tamok - Resistance is Futile on Subway, this track is good example of hard style that is far easier to apply smoother mixing to.

Am I just being rigid because of the way I go about mixing or is hard style producers designing tunes so that your supposed to bring out the other tune before the next one kicks in?

Just curious to what you lot think!

Yes, i think they are producing tracks so that you have to play most of their tune. But ive never found a trackt hat i cant get around. DJ freindly vinyl pisses me off to be honest. I like a challenge, and i think that dj's should work for their money. I mean, come on. Most of the producers making the tracks are earning **** all compared to a lot of the dj's playing them. Why should a talented producer make a track dj freindly. just so an aparently "talented" dj, doesnt have a hard time mixing it. To be honest its pretty pathetic if a dj's complains that a track is hard to mix, especially with dance genres.

I agree that hardstyle is harder to mix but I mix it differently to u. I usually try and time it so that wen the tune im bringing in kicks in, it coincides with a drop in feel of the other tune eg. after the main melody/screechy sounds :lol: This way just as the tune is about to wind down *bang* comes in a new bassline :twisted: Sometimes you have to do the cutting out b4 it kicks in thing tough depending on the tune :cool:

I know what you mean and I'd be the first person to say that tracks shouldn't be made to mix friendly specifically - part of the fun of mixing is the challenge! What I'm saying is that hard style tunes are more aimed at a style of mixing that is LESS about blending two tracks together and more about blagging breakdowns to quickly cut out a track and leave with a pause before the 2nd track kicks in, - or this is what I'm hearing when I listen to most hard style sets.

Like I say, not complaining that the hard style tracks are too hard to mix as at the end of the day they aren't, I'm saying that the cunning and blending part of mixing that I find most creative and fun is a bit lost with hard style for the reasons I mentioned.

Top and bottom of me posting this is because I hate it when a mix involves a track being cut out quickly leaving a pause before a new beat comes in. I love the sound of a mix that uses both tunes elements to cross over and keep the beats flowing... a mix that comes across as one track evolving in to the next one, as opposed to sounding like it was supposed to break down and stop for the next one to hammer in after a pause.

hakka m8 i dont mix hardstyle anything like you say you hear except occasionally wen it suits the tune

No I appreciate that, I'm not suggesting everyone does... but I've been listening to loads and loads of sets from holland and too many of the mixes I was hearing were un-inspiring and obvious mixes due to tracks being cut out leaving a long pause before the new beat to come in.

It isn't bad mixing at all, its perfectly timed, right volumes and neatly done. Problem is that to me (the listener) I hear an obvious break up in the music and jump between two records.

Maybe I'm just being picky and funny about what I like and dislike, but my point was about the design of tracks being done to suit a style of mixing, perhaps?

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Originally Posted by Hakka

No I appreciate that, I'm not suggesting everyone does... but I've been listening to loads and loads of sets from holland and too many of the mixes I was hearing were un-inspiring and obvious mixes due to tracks being cut out leaving a long pause before the new beat to come in.

It isn't bad mixing at all, its perfectly timed, right volumes and neatly done. Problem is that to me (the listener) I hear an obvious break up in the music and jump between two records.

Maybe I'm just being picky and funny about what I like and dislike, but my point was about the design of tracks being done to suit a style of mixing, perhaps?

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Ive also noticed that about dutch sets they all mainly mix like that, cuttiing the tune out wen the other goes to a small break etc.

But, even if tunes are desiged to be mixes like that it still shouldnt limit ppl in how they mix.

Have you ever heard one of my cds m8? If not ill let u av a copy of my next one so u can see a different style to the one you describe ;)

yeah please mate, I'd love to hear a cd of yours. Shall I PM my address? :)

i like the quiet start then huge shift in bass cos you get to time it right, wait for the little sampley bit inbetween 2 bars then spin them kills.

speaking of which there will finally be a new mix from me this week, its freaking ace hehe

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Originally Posted by Hakka

yeah please mate, I'd love to hear a cd of yours. Shall I PM my address? :)

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Yeh pm your addy m8 I should be doin it sometime this week :cool:

The reason hardstyle is hard to mix is because the production is in most cases pretty amateur, so they don't follow any kind of set pattern that tracks need to do to be mixed properly. Too many people just make up their own structure which leads to none of them fitting together in sequence.

Hardstyle now needs to be mixed like hardcore, when at first it could be mixed like hard trance or even trance. I guess it comes down to how you prefer mixing - short and choppy (think Mondello) or long and smooth (think Dana). Personally I like long and smooth, so I don't get on too well with bad layouts/sequences.

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Originally Posted by Voorheez

The reason hardstyle is hard to mix is because the production is in most cases pretty amateur, so they don't follow any kind of set pattern that tracks need to do to be mixed properly. Too many people just make up their own structure which leads to none of them fitting together in sequence.

Hardstyle now needs to be mixed like hardcore, when at first it could be mixed like hard trance or even trance. I guess it comes down to how you prefer mixing - short and choppy (think Mondello) or long and smooth (think Dana). Personally I like long and smooth, so I don't get on too well with bad layouts/sequences.

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Dana is definitley the mixing style I aspire to reach...

I like short + choppy

Louk

Depends on what track you are mixing.
Some tunes you may work them out so that they fit perfectly to make a long and sly mix. ;)
Others (hardstyle) so that its Bang Bang Bang all the way :rambo: :rambo:

was talking about this with a mate the other day - it is quite hard to pick up a pile of random hardstyle tunes and go play a perfect set as there are loadsa breaks n'stuff that are off timed with other records......

there is not set formulae as such for the construction - which makes it harder for the dj..... but better as an individual song IMHO


For me though - the breaks and when the beatnbass pound back in hard are one of the appealing things of Hardstyle - I feckin love it when there's an awesome beat that just slams in........ ok - some people find it stop&starty.......having many breakdowns in one track..... but I actually prefer it - gets the adrenalin going for defo!!!

Yeh you cant beat it wen a hardstyle whacks in :rambo: :twisted:

Oh I love it when a beat slams in, just feel its better when it slams in time of the breakdown of the tune your mixing out of.

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Originally Posted by Hakka

Oh I love it when a beat slams in, just feel its better when it slams in time of the breakdown of the tune your mixing out of.

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Yep innit :clap:

I prefer all the tracks to be structured different, bigger challange and more of an interesting mix. Thats what p*ssed me off about hard house, its just too predictable.

This way every mix can be unique and unexpected.

Im in a bad mood wit mixin at the mo!

Yeah all is true, but its what akes hardstyle unique init, being harder to mix isnt a bad thing it just means u got more talent, and if u get to know ur tunes inside out, the random kicks etc wont bother you

innit
i pretty much know my vinyls inside out! thats why i wanna get some new stuff
i started mixin techno into my sets now


wheres the best place to donload hardstyle/techno tracks (complete tracks) from???

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Originally Posted by DJTrubass

and if u get to know ur tunes inside out, the random kicks etc wont bother you

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I know my tunes inside out and they still wind me up :cry:

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Originally Posted by DJTrubass

Yeah all is true, but its what akes hardstyle unique init, being harder to mix isnt a bad thing it just means u got more talent, and if u get to know ur tunes inside out, the random kicks etc wont bother you

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Yeah m8, you can plan a set right out so that its 1 bassline after another. :rambo:
Im still in the prosess of learning all my tunes inside and out ;)

Dont you get bored of a track if you learn it inside out?

it depends - some I do for defo.......



I really need to play a lot more of my tunes or get recording and listening in the car - I'm still buying loadsa tunes but really busy at the mo so not gettin much time with the twins ........ knowledge of the last 3 months tunes is at an all time low - some I've prop only played 3 times max :doh: :doh:

THERE MAKING TUNES NOW TO CUT THE TIME OF MIXING DOWN SO YOU HEAR 90% OF THERE TUNE WHICH I THINK IS BOLLOCKS. WHEN I`M MIXING I WANNA MIX AS LONG AS POSS TO GET BASE LINE RIPPIN SO IT SOUNDS HARDER. EVERYONE WANTS TO DO BANGIN MIXING SO THE PRODUCERS SHOULD SORT EM SELVES OUT!

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Originally Posted by DJ SPUDIE

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Originally Posted by DJTrubass

Yeah all is true, but its what akes hardstyle unique init, being harder to mix isnt a bad thing it just means u got more talent, and if u get to know ur tunes inside out, the random kicks etc wont bother you

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Yeah m8, you can plan a set right out so that its 1 bassline after another. :rambo:
Im still in the prosess of learning all my tunes inside and out ;)

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Depends if thats your style r not though innit? i know a lot of my tunes very well but theres too many to know every detail of all of em :cool:

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Originally Posted by MCVIPER

THERE MAKING TUNES NOW TO CUT THE TIME OF MIXING DOWN SO YOU HEAR 90% OF THERE TUNE WHICH I THINK IS BOLLOCKS. WHEN I`M MIXING I WANNA MIX AS LONG AS POSS TO GET BASE LINE RIPPIN SO IT SOUNDS HARDER. EVERYONE WANTS TO DO BANGIN MIXING SO THE PRODUCERS SHOULD SORT EM SELVES OUT!

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I disagree. I think its a good thing, the producers should make what they want an do it as unique as possibly. Its up to the dj to get around this.

Break the rules!

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Originally Posted by K Front

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Originally Posted by MCVIPER

THERE MAKING TUNES NOW TO CUT THE TIME OF MIXING DOWN SO YOU HEAR 90% OF THERE TUNE WHICH I THINK IS BOLLOCKS. WHEN I`M MIXING I WANNA MIX AS LONG AS POSS TO GET BASE LINE RIPPIN SO IT SOUNDS HARDER. EVERYONE WANTS TO DO BANGIN MIXING SO THE PRODUCERS SHOULD SORT EM SELVES OUT!

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I disagree. I think its a good thing, the producers should make what they want an do it as unique as possibly. Its up to the dj to get around this.

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its good for mixes to be challenging :cool:

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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu

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Originally Posted by K Front

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Originally Posted by MCVIPER

THERE MAKING TUNES NOW TO CUT THE TIME OF MIXING DOWN SO YOU HEAR 90% OF THERE TUNE WHICH I THINK IS BOLLOCKS. WHEN I`M MIXING I WANNA MIX AS LONG AS POSS TO GET BASE LINE RIPPIN SO IT SOUNDS HARDER. EVERYONE WANTS TO DO BANGIN MIXING SO THE PRODUCERS SHOULD SORT EM SELVES OUT!

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I disagree. I think its a good thing, the producers should make what they want an do it as unique as possibly. Its up to the dj to get around this.

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its good for mixes to be challenging :cool:

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I disagree personally. An artist works with a blank canvas and creates art from it much like a good DJ creates great sounding mixes from tunes that have a sequence that will fit on others of it's type. It's a basic rule of production, because these tunes are, after all designed to be mixed together. If all you can come up with is intro to outro mixes with well sequenced tunes, then thats only your skill level.

Tunes that are not in any kind of sequence are not challenging and unique to me, they're frustratingly amatuer, and nigh on impossible to make them sound good whilst mixing.

Do you want to take this outside?


:lol:

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Originally Posted by Voorheez

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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu

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Originally Posted by K Front

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Originally Posted by MCVIPER

THERE MAKING TUNES NOW TO CUT THE TIME OF MIXING DOWN SO YOU HEAR 90% OF THERE TUNE WHICH I THINK IS BOLLOCKS. WHEN I`M MIXING I WANNA MIX AS LONG AS POSS TO GET BASE LINE RIPPIN SO IT SOUNDS HARDER. EVERYONE WANTS TO DO BANGIN MIXING SO THE PRODUCERS SHOULD SORT EM SELVES OUT!

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I disagree. I think its a good thing, the producers should make what they want an do it as unique as possibly. Its up to the dj to get around this.

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its good for mixes to be challenging :cool:

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I disagree personally. An artist works with a blank canvas and creates art from it much like a good DJ creates great sounding mixes from tunes that have a sequence that will fit on others of it's type. It's a basic rule of production, because these tunes are, after all designed to be mixed together. If all you can come up with is intro to outro mixes with well sequenced tunes, then thats only your skill level.

Tunes that are not in any kind of sequence are not challenging and unique to me, they're frustratingly amatuer, and nigh on impossible to make them sound good whilst mixing.

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so what you want every tune to be made straight through with no stitches??
how boring would that be :roll: :doh:
all the mixes would be the same :eh:
you cant call tunes amatuer just cause they dont stick to "the basic rules", if you cant mix them together to get em to sound nice then maybe u shouldnt be mixin it?
the whole fun of mixing hardstyle is the amount of different ways the tunes go together.

yeah mate
i tend to find myself mixing the same set of tunes every time i mix
n it was gettin easy so 2nite i changed the order in which i played them n i was ****in lovin it coz it was quite a challenge :clap:

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Originally Posted by Voorheez

I disagree personally. An artist works with a blank canvas and creates art from it much like a good DJ creates great sounding mixes from tunes that have a sequence that will fit on others of it's type.

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I think that from my point of view you are waaaay overcomplicating and reading too much into it…..
Not a dig at u personally or anyting bu!… but this is hardstyle….not some super intellignet 6hr prog set where bringing in the wrong hi-hat as the critical high point in the entire set can spoil the entire performance!! and you've got to rely on the producers for knowing where everthing's gonna come in lol!!

U can't critisize hardstyle for not being like other genre's - its the way it is...... thats why its a different genre!!


As said earlier...I like the little breaks and the bass slammin back in...... always gets a grin on the chops...... sometimes it's a pain in the ass if your mixing with tunes you don't know..... but thats hardstyle innit

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Originally Posted by Voorheez

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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu

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Originally Posted by K Front

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Originally Posted by MCVIPER

THERE MAKING TUNES NOW TO CUT THE TIME OF MIXING DOWN SO YOU HEAR 90% OF THERE TUNE WHICH I THINK IS BOLLOCKS. WHEN I`M MIXING I WANNA MIX AS LONG AS POSS TO GET BASE LINE RIPPIN SO IT SOUNDS HARDER. EVERYONE WANTS TO DO BANGIN MIXING SO THE PRODUCERS SHOULD SORT EM SELVES OUT!

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I disagree. I think its a good thing, the producers should make what they want an do it as unique as possibly. Its up to the dj to get around this.

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its good for mixes to be challenging :cool:

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I disagree personally. An artist works with a blank canvas and creates art from it much like a good DJ creates great sounding mixes from tunes that have a sequence that will fit on others of it's type. It's a basic rule of production, because these tunes are, after all designed to be mixed together. If all you can come up with is intro to outro mixes with well sequenced tunes, then thats only your skill level.

Tunes that are not in any kind of sequence are not challenging and unique to me, they're frustratingly amatuer, and nigh on impossible to make them sound good whilst mixing.

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U cant say theres no sequence to hardstyle coz there is, its just moe varied then other styles. Also, why would you want every tune to follow the exact same structure? If that was the case then wheres the skill in mixig em?

You guys are missing the whole point of my post and this topic in particular.

I'm not referring to hardstyle as a whole, rather certain tracks which are gradually increasing in numbers, that are hard or near impossible to mix.

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so what you want every tune to be made straight through with no stitches??
how boring would that be

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No. Read again.

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you cant call tunes amatuer just cause they dont stick to "the basic rules", if you cant mix them together to get em to sound nice then maybe u shouldnt be mixin it?

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Basic rules of production. i.e music has to be in time. And I can mix them together real nice thanks, come see me DJ sometime or listen to a CD and be prepared to eat humble pie.

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U can't critisize hardstyle for not being like other genre's - its the way it is...... thats why its a different genre!!

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Again, i'm not talking about hardstyle, and I never criticised it for not being like other genres. I'm talking about some badly produced hardstyle tracks.

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U cant say theres no sequence to hardstyle coz there is, its just moe varied then other styles. Also, why would you want every tune to follow the exact same structure? If that was the case then wheres the skill in mixig em?

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I'm talking about sequences in the tune. Like keeping to a 32/16 beat rythym instead of missing 4 beats somewhere then finshing 16 early here and there.

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Originally Posted by Voorheez

I'm talking about sequences in the tune. Like keeping to a 32/16 beat rythym instead of missing 4 beats somewhere then finshing 16 early here and there.

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Don't you love it when your in a club though and it cut's out when u don't expect it....and slams back in when u even less expect it?? :rambo:


Maybe some people on here ain't feelin hardstyle like me.... but I'm well enthusiastic about it at the moment.......


more people are playing it.........gettin played out in clubs more...... - alright granted, there;s a lot of feckin bollocks being made.... but unlike the really cheesy one's (tetris...*snigger*) which can be made fun of.... why don't u just ignore the shiit ones...... :?:

l

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Originally Posted by Voorheez

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you cant call tunes amatuer just cause they dont stick to "the basic rules", if you cant mix them together to get em to sound nice then maybe u shouldnt be mixin it?

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Basic rules of production. i.e music has to be in time. And I can mix them together real nice thanks, come see me DJ sometime or listen to a CD and be prepared to eat humble pie.


I'm talking about sequences in the tune. Like keeping to a 32/16 beat rythym instead of missing 4 beats somewhere then finshing 16 early here and there.

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I never said you couldnt mix, you were the one who admitted they couldnt mix hardstyle very well.

and if a tune misses four beats it doesnt mean its gone out of time, if it stays 4/4 youve got nothing to complain about.

c'mon boys, put yer handbags away huh?!... :lol:

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Originally Posted by Voorheez

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U cant say theres no sequence to hardstyle coz there is, its just moe varied then other styles. Also, why would you want every tune to follow the exact same structure? If that was the case then wheres the skill in mixig em?

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I'm talking about sequences in the tune. Like keeping to a 32/16 beat rythym instead of missing 4 beats somewhere then finshing 16 early here and there.

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I know m8 but thats half the skill in mixing it by allowing for those 4 beats etc. you can do class mixes by crossing the bass after one of these little breaks :cool:

hard style is the easiest style of music ever to mix i think:) even easier than london acid techno.

try mixing some dutch/french hardcore that changes all the way throught it and only lasts 3.5mins

I wouldnt say it was the easiest to mix, not as hard as hardcore techno but still harder than hard house, hardcore etc.

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Originally Posted by serox

hard style is the easiest style of music ever to mix i think:)

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Go mix some trance and then come back and tell me if you feel the same. Or hard trance, or hard house, house, progressive, tech-trance...

I think the confusion in this thread has been over understanding the point I started. I don't think hard style is hard to mix. It isn't. It's is slightly more harder to mix than trance and much more harder to mix than hard house.

My point was based upon STYLE of mixing... and I find smooth mixing is harder to achieve with hardstyle because it can be a bit random on where its breaking down or building up etc... all be it in "time" to some pattern of bar.

Mixing it is not a problem, mixing it to the standard I want to reproduce I find much harder than other genres because I find hardstyle can let you down by doing something you don't expect.

Learning your tunes is one thing, but having to learn every combination of hardstyle tune to make sure your comfortable (in my case) is what my snag was.

I'm getting there... most hardstyle I've got nailed down, there's a few rouge producers though that make life awkward because of unusal timing in there releases.

you can predict what is going to happen all the time, 99% of the hardstyle stuff being made now has the same patterns.

hard house and hard style are the same to mix i think. techno being a bit harder and ther industrial techno/hardcore being 10x harder.

mixing hardstyle means you've got to know the records. Well.. if you want to mix properly right and like it's supposed to be mixed.
Mostly it's mixed on the first beat out of 4.
Producers often keep this in mind while producing the records. (especially saifam productions (for the technoboy sets :P)
Hardstyle is all about building tracks and sets to a climax.
I think it's best when djs skip the first part of a record. It's not appreciated to hear a 6/7 minute song. Make sure you only play like 4/5 minutes of it.

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Originally Posted by serox

you can predict what is going to happen all the time, 99% of the hardstyle stuff being made now has the same patterns.

hard house and hard style are the same to mix i think. techno being a bit harder and ther industrial techno/hardcore being 10x harder.

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if you think mixing hard house and hardstyle are the same thing, then you cannot possibily mixing it how its supposed to mixed :roll:
theres no technical mixing required with hard house and there definately is with hard style.

and really hardcore techno isnt 10x harder to mix at all, its slightly harder but its still not really hard.