A winge of sorts.

[BRADLEE]

Well, I'm quite flattered be half the topic at hand here. While I do agree that I've definitely learned from people being constructive with giving me advice; I also think that music is a constant learning process for everyone. Steve..DB he has helped me quite a bit with mixdown especially back when I first started posting on BOA. Although my ear remains less critical than his still because he has loads more experiance with mastering and engineering music in general. So I can't always offer the same level of advice that some people can.

But I also think sometimes when people post critique...it's sometimes just opinion. Because we all hear and see things from a differant point of view. One persons opinion will varie from another. One might say needs more Bass, one might say...needs more highs about the very same tune.

I think a persons views on mastering is a matter of ones perceptions in what they want to hear too. Frankly if all things were mastered exactly the same value, wouldn't that make music overall less dynamic? Because maybe one person who writes a tune will intend it to sound a certain way....want certain elements to stick out more than others, then somebody else might have a totally differant idea of what sound they wish to achieve. I think having that variation is kind of nice.

I mean obviously if something is shit it's shit....No doubt about that. And truly while I do think mastering and mixdown is extremely important...I think some focus too much on that rather than the content of their music. Which is sad to me frankly.....

I mean...you can have the clearest sound of a pin dropping on the ground, but does that make it good music?

[The Overfiend]

Well, I'm quite flattered be half the topic at hand here. While I do agree that I've definitely learned from people being constructive with giving me advice; I also think that music is a constant learning process for everyone. Steve..DB he has helped me quite a bit with mixdown especially back when I first started posting on BOA. Although my ear remains less critical than his still because he has loads more experiance with mastering and engineering music in general. So I can't always offer the same level of advice that some people can.

But I also think sometimes when people post critique...it's sometimes just opinion. Because we all hear and see things from a differant point of view. One persons opinion will varie from another. One might say needs more Bass, one might say...needs more highs about the very same tune.

I think a persons views on mastering is a matter of ones perceptions in what they want to hear too. Frankly if all things were mastered exactly the same value, wouldn't that make music overall less dynamic? Because maybe one person who writes a tune will intend it to sound a certain way....want certain elements to stick out more than others, then somebody else might have a totally differant idea of what sound they wish to achieve. I think having that variation is kind of nice.

I mean obviously if something is shit it's shit....No doubt about that. And truly while I do think mastering and mixdown is extremely important...I think some focus too much on that rather than the content of their music. Which is sad to me frankly.....

I mean...you can have the clearest sound of a pin dropping on the ground, but does that make it good music?

Golf Clap, douchebag.

[BRADLEE]

Golf Clap, douchebag.

Is that regular or spring fresh Scented

[dirty_bass]

But I also think sometimes when people post critique...it's sometimes just opinion. Because we all hear and see things from a differant point of view. One persons opinion will varie from another. One might say needs more Bass, one might say...needs more highs about the very same tune.

I think a persons views on mastering is a matter of ones perceptions in what they want to hear too. Frankly if all things were mastered exactly the same value, wouldn't that make music overall less dynamic? Because maybe one person who writes a tune will intend it to sound a certain way....want certain elements to stick out more than others, then somebody else might have a totally differant idea of what sound they wish to achieve. I think having that variation is kind of nice.

I mean obviously if something is shit it's shit....No doubt about that. And truly while I do think mastering and mixdown is extremely important...I think some focus too much on that rather than the content of their music. Which is sad to me frankly.....

I mean...you can have the clearest sound of a pin dropping on the ground, but does that make it good music?

Hmm youdon`t really understand mixing and mastering if you can say this.
It`s fairly obvious when elements are badly eq`d or too loud, and isn`t really that subjective. Blatant problems are blatant problems.

It`s a good way of justifying bad production though ie
"dude, you bass and mid is really muddy, can`t hear a thing"

"oh I meant it to be that way"

"what, badly made?"

"no man, that`s my style!

"what, your style is shit-style?"

I mean obviously if something is shit it's shit....No doubt about that. And truly while I do think mastering and mixdown is extremely important...I think some focus too much on that rather than the content of their music. Which is sad to me frankly.....[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#000000][COLOR=silver]I mean...you can have the clearest sound of a pin dropping on the ground, but does that make it good music?

This final comment really holds no water in this day and age.

Everyone has access to the equipment now, pretty much, so there are far more "musicians" out there.

And quite frankly, judging by the amount of demos I get sent, there are many many many good techno musicians out there.

so making a "good tune" simply isn`t enough.

You need to make a good production as well to stand out above the mud heap.

I find it utterly pointless commenting about something as subjective as to wether a tune is good or not.
My good tune might be another persons cheese.
It really means nothing.

But you can be OBJECTIVE about production, because there are rules and trends and methods, and ways of working that you can effectively be right or wrong with. Especially on music designed for vinyl and soundsystems.

Even the Sex Pistols were well produced.

It`s not unachievable, to progress to a professional production level. It just requires work, research, and patience. Something lacking these days when most people can switch on fruity loops and make a tune in an hour, and then send it out expecting a release 2 hours later.


Sorry, I`m not really attacking you at all Brad, as you are someone who works hard on your production, and who genuinly has learned at improved.

Which is why I don`t understand your rather naieve comments.

[BRADLEE]

Hmm youdon`t really understand mixing and mastering if you can say this.
It`s fairly obvious when elements are badly eq`d or too loud, and isn`t really that subjective. Blatant problems are blatant problems.

It`s a good way of justifying bad production though ie
"dude, you bass and mid is really muddy, can`t hear a thing"

"oh I meant it to be that way"

"what, badly made?"

"no man, that`s my style!

"what, your style is shit-style?"

I mean obviously if something is shit it's shit....No doubt about that. And truly while I do think mastering and mixdown is extremely important...I think some focus too much on that rather than the content of their music. Which is sad to me frankly.....[/color]

[color=#000000][color=silver]I mean...you can have the clearest sound of a pin dropping on the ground, but does that make it good music?

This final comment really holds no water in this day and age.

Everyone has access to the equipment now, pretty much, so there are far more "musicians" out there.

And quite frankly, judging by the amount of demos I get sent, there are many many many good techno musicians out there.

so making a "good tune" simply isn`t enough.

You need to make a good production as well to stand out above the mud heap.

I find it utterly pointless commenting about something as subjective as to wether a tune is good or not.
My good tune might be another persons cheese.
It really means nothing.

But you can be OBJECTIVE about production, because there are rules and trends and methods, and ways of working that you can effectively be right or wrong with. Especially on music designed for vinyl and soundsystems.

Even the Sex Pistols were well produced.

It`s not unachievable, to progress to a professional production level. It just requires work, research, and patience. Something lacking these days when most people can switch on fruity loops and make a tune in an hour, and then send it out expecting a release 2 hours later.


Sorry, I`m not really attacking you at all Brad, as you are someone who works hard on your production, and who genuinly has learned at improved.

Which is why I don`t understand your rather naieve comments.

Steve, all i can say is if you feel that way, and you don't tell it to me before posting it on the net, you're obviously not my homie as you claim to be. Seems all you're trying to do is tear me down...but when we rap, it's a whole differant ball game.

At this point, we no longer have anything to say to one another. You claim this comment isn't a shot at me, but it obviously is. And you claim to be a brother of the craft....I don't see it. From this day forward, don't speak of me...don't breathe of me and don't think of me. I just can't believe that somebody I HAD (no more) so much respect for would bad mouth me in such a manner....somebody i thought would be happy that I'm doing well.

You basically called my music shit man....that's ****ed!!!!

[loopdon]

Brad, i am sure Steve didn't call your music/production shit. This will be cleared up, no doubt.

[dirty_bass]

Steve, all i can say is if you feel that way, and you don't tell it to me before posting it on the net, you're obviously not my homie as you claim to be. Seems all you're trying to do is tear me down...but when we rap, it's a whole differant ball game.

At this point, we no longer have anything to say to one another. You claim this comment isn't a shot at me, but it obviously is. And you claim to be a brother of the craft....I don't see it. From this day forward, don't speak of me...don't breathe of me and don't think of me. I just can't believe that somebody I HAD (no more) so much respect for would bad mouth me in such a manner....somebody i thought would be happy that I'm doing well.

You basically called my music shit man....that's ****ed!!!!

I think you need to re-read what I wrote there.
That litte quote conversation was just an imaginary scenario with a non excistant character.
You been with tony too long man, jumping off without reading clearly, I`ve not picked on your music at all.
In fact read my last sentence.

I think musically and production wise you are one of the good examples of consistant improvement. And as far as I am concerned you have gone from strength to strength.

[The Overfiend]

I think you need to re-read what I wrote there.
That litte quote conversation was just an imaginary scenario with a non excistant character.
You been with tony too long man, jumping off without reading clearly, I`ve not picked on your music at all.
In fact read my last sentence.

I think musically and production wise you are one of the good examples of consistant improvement. And as far as I am concerned you have gone from strength to strength.

Why don't you address Brad instead of dragging my name into this. Brad does not live in my house, I do not influence Brad, he is perfectly capable of coming to his own conclusions. Don't bring my name into this again, that's the second time you've done it in this thread alone, get it through your head.

You are not the definition of perfect techno.
You are not the be all end all of what sounds good.
Your tastes do not define what techno is, should be, or what the potential of techno truly is.
If you are so bored with techno and so fed up with bad production and think that it is a lost cause then bounce, or flood the market with quality, you have labels, you have a radio show, go show the world what "good" techno is.
Be a man and keep my name out of your mouth.
So mote it be.

[dirty_bass]

Why don't you address Brad instead of dragging my name into this. Brad does not live in my house, I do not influence Brad, he is perfectly capable of coming to his own conclusions. Don't bring my name into this again, that's the second time you've done it in this thread alone, get it through your head.

You are not the definition of perfect techno.
You are not the be all end all of what sounds good.
Your tastes do not define what techno is, should be, or what the potential of techno truly is.
If you are so bored with techno and so fed up with bad production and think that it is a lost cause then bounce, or flood the market with quality, you have labels, you have a radio show, go show the world what "good" techno is.
Be a man and keep my name out of your mouth.
So mote it be.

When did I claim to be the definition of anything, I`m reading back through this post and I can`t seem to find it.


I know production. But I don`t claim to be the king of techno, and again, where do I claim to be bored of techno? or that things are a lost cause?
I wouldn`t be slaving in my studio writing a new production tutorial if I thought all hope was lost.
I don`t really claim anything about techno, other than that I know how to produce to a certain technical standard. Which is why I am paid to master music of all genres.
Nor do I really claim to judge "good" or "bad" techno. I know good and bad production however. Which you seem to have trouble separating.
Why would I want to flood the market with anything?
Now chill out, I know you got a problem with me, there`s no need for this to go any further is there? If you really wanna, then ask mark to open the Vex


Brad, I ain`t insulted you at all, read the words again. I may be a cantankerous old sod, but I never insult people in the way you seem to think I have with you (rather bizarrely)



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Back on point.


Anyway, in conclusion, good, most people seem to be into constructive crit. Which is great. You`ll all help each other loads if you are brutally honest with your crit, and keep the subjective and personal side of it out of the way.
There is a massive difference between artistic/aesthetic critisism and practical/technical crit. As long as you don`t let your ego get in the way you can benefit loads. This place used to be like that and it really was fantastic.

I`ll try to offer a little production help when I can, but really I`m a little too busy these days to go through loads of tunes each week like I used too.

If you are having difficulty with a tune I will always reply to pm`s and try and help out if I can with your production woe`s.