you will shoot me for saying it but....

[davethedrummer]

well good for you mr ledge i'm glad you found some good stuff
you totally have a point about crap always being there records too , but i still think the ratio of good tracks to crap is way too low these days.
i've been through just about everything on juno for the last few weeks and really nothing to write home about.
and i need some replacments not just a f£cking 6 minute drum a f£ckin finger on the table along to and fall asleep into your beer to.

ok you're going to say , use this shop or that shop its loads better etc etc ....and yeah i would if i had all day to do it ( too busy polishing the bentley and rolls ) , i'd go through every shop in the bloody world , but there just isn't enough time.
specially with internet record shops... it's like asking your mate in leeds to drive down to turn the bloody record over so you can listen to the other side.....

...." hey marky egg i'm all done with that side , could you leg it down here to flip it over for me , and maybe crash my browser while your doing it and possibly mail my credit card details to a load of gangsters in china while you're at it ?"

"f£ck off i'm havin' me tea!"...

..chris lib said a while ago , all this minimal stuff is crap ( just like that ) , why doesn't someone really break the rules and make a minimal track at 150 bpm or something ?
and i agree with that point.
and a while back people were taking a few risks like that , and it was good i thought.

but now its the safety net all the way for everyone
and thats the bit I don't like

yeah maybe it was a crap tune 5 years ago , but at least the guy was trying , not like now when a crap tune is just a waste of vinyl/time.

no , there are people on this forum who are in a position to positively push the music forward , me included and we are not doing it


why?

another rant sorry about that.

[psychochick]

..chris lib said a while ago , all this minimal stuff is crap ( just like that ) , why doesn't someone really break the rules and make a minimal track at 150 bpm or something ?

good idea , sort it out

[lunatrick]

hard techno is on it's way out (for now) - you just got to accept it - mutate and survive right?.....the thing is if you slow your set down to around 125 - 128 bpm the range of records that become available to you opens up massively, and things are just far more groovy, and you have more choice of peak time bangers....it sounds to me like you need those big anthem bangers cos you do big gigs abroad where you need that peak, those 'when I rock' 'born slippy' moments......thats what the kids want - fair enough.

I used to love going to the end to listen layo and bushwacka play all night - they play all sorts of trippy wonky tech glitch minimal whatever......just because the music is slower doesn't mean it's not hard...

At the same time more commercial dj's like sven vath still play to 4000 peeps in ibiza everyyear - he's considered the biggest techno dj in the world and yet I doubt he ever goes above 130bpm...this has been happening for years now.

I know what your saying - listening to the techo section on juno is dispressing these days - I'm starting not to bother....

personally labels like olmeto, traum, cocoon are doing it for me these days. On the washing machine point - no offence (I've defended and played and supported this scene for the last decade) but I've heard no end of clubbers describe london techno as washing machine and been turned off by it.........

[christian wagner]

At the same time more commercial dj's like sven vath still play to 4000 peeps in ibiza everyyear - he's considered the biggest techno dj in the world and yet I doubt he ever goes above 130bpm...this has been happening for years now.

I know what you mean about the slower stuff being around for ages, but i think its the elements that are in the track that make it what it is nowadays, funky loops, camp guitar riffs and male love vocals are this summers hot thang...:)

Some of the best techno iv heard was about 130bpm, on an old vibealite tape of somekind but it was damm tough and had so many elements and trippy elements in it.

[davethedrummer]

hard techno is on it's way out (for now) - you just got to accept it - mutate and survive right?.....the thing is if you slow your set down to around 125 - 128 bpm the range of records that become available to you opens up massively, and things are just far more groovy, and you have more choice of peak time bangers....it sounds to me like you need those big anthem bangers cos you do big gigs abroad where you need that peak, those 'when I rock' 'born slippy' moments......thats what the kids want - fair enough.

I used to love going to the end to listen layo and bushwacka play all night - they play all sorts of trippy wonky tech glitch minimal whatever......just because the music is slower doesn't mean it's not hard...

At the same time more commercial dj's like sven vath still play to 4000 peeps in ibiza everyyear - he's considered the biggest techno dj in the world and yet I doubt he ever goes above 130bpm...this has been happening for years now.

I know what your saying - listening to the techo section on juno is dispressing these days - I'm starting not to bother....

personally labels like olmeto, traum, cocoon are doing it for me these days. On the washing machine point - no offence (I've defended and played and supported this scene for the last decade) but I've heard no end of clubbers describe london techno as washing machine and been turned off by it.........

i totally agree
it's a shame , but there it is.

[theledge]

well good for you mr ledge i'm glad you found some good stuff
you totally have a point about crap always being there records too , but i still think the ratio of good tracks to crap is way too low these days.
i've been through just about everything on juno for the last few weeks and really nothing to write home about.
and i need some replacments not just a f£cking 6 minute drum a f£ckin finger on the table along to and fall asleep into your beer to.

ok you're going to say , use this shop or that shop its loads better etc etc ....and yeah i would if i had all day to do it ( too busy polishing the bentley and rolls ) , i'd go through every shop in the bloody world , but there just isn't enough time.
specially with internet record shops... it's like asking your mate in leeds to drive down to turn the bloody record over so you can listen to the other side.....

fair enough can see you were making a broader point anyway. i agree it's almost too easy to make music now with computers and pirated software, made worse also with internet/mp3 distribution

maybe the standard has been lowered by the sheer volume of tracks and producers out there, and it needs some time to level out

[RDR]

fair enough can see you were making a broader point anyway. i agree it's almost too easy to make music now with computers and pirated software, made worse also with internet/mp3 distribution

maybe the standard has been lowered by the sheer volume of tracks and producers out there, and it needs some time to level out

You are completely missing the point.

At NO stage does having accessible technology make the quality of the music go down. Where does it say that people enjoy making crap quality music, and what on earth makes people think that everything will get WORSE?

Its too easy to make music? No it isnt, the fundamentals of music didnt change overnight you know.

And how on earth is it made worse with internet distribution? What worse than the owners of a well known defunct distro piping up the crack and gambling 10k a week? worse than small minded distro owners raping the jesus out of artists who did nothing wrong other than be forced into a ropey P+D deal because there was **** all else for them to do?

Nowt personal but i get REALLY sick of people slagging this off (and yes i do have a vested interest, however im hardly likely to sell much through BOA so this is IMO fo course)

The MP3 and digital revoution is just that, move with the times or get swamped, the music industry changes.

In one respect there are many many many SHITE music writers out there, but the digital revolution gives people HOPE, it opens doors that were closed. And its ALWAYS the young who create and shape trends, rather than the OG's attempting to hang onto markets they created that no longer work.

I am a lover of techno, a fan of henry's stuff and and old orbit head, if techno is to survive and remain fresh it has to change and we have to undertsand that we might not like where its going. I for one dont care, i want to hear new - fresh - well produced and unusual music.

FFS - techno is about all those sounds you never heard before, so why do people moan when it changes?

[dirty_bass]

You are completely missing the point.

At NO stage does having accessible technology make the quality of the music go down. Where does it say that people enjoy making crap quality music, and what on earth makes people think that everything will get WORSE?

Its too easy to make music? No it isnt, the fundamentals of music didnt change overnight you know.

And how on earth is it made worse with internet distribution? What worse than the owners of a well known defunct distro piping up the crack and gambling 10k a week? worse than small minded distro owners raping the jesus out of artists who did nothing wrong other than be forced into a ropey P+D deal because there was **** all else for them to do?

Nowt personal but i get REALLY sick of people slagging this off (and yes i do have a vested interest, however im hardly likely to sell much through BOA so this is IMO fo course)

The MP3 and digital revoution is just that, move with the times or get swamped, the music industry changes.

In one respect there are many many many SHITE music writers out there, but the digital revolution gives people HOPE, it opens doors that were closed. And its ALWAYS the young who create and shape trends, rather than the OG's attempting to hang onto markets they created that no longer work.

I am a lover of techno, a fan of henry's stuff and and old orbit head, if techno is to survive and remain fresh it has to change and we have to undertsand that we might not like where its going. I for one dont care, i want to hear new - fresh - well produced and unusual music.

FFS - techno is about all those sounds you never heard before, so why do people moan when it changes?

Great post.
the mp3 revolution finally tips the balance back in the favour of the artists.
No longer held to ransom buy the ditribution machine, it frees the artist from trends, and sales fear, and the tastes of distributers.
It`s very empowering.

[theledge]

erm not sure what brought all this on, i was only throwing a couple of ideas around.

You are completely missing the point.

At NO stage does having accessible technology make the quality of the music go down. Where does it say that people enjoy making crap quality music, and what on earth makes people think that everything will get WORSE?

Well, it's reasonable to suggest it's going to have an effect, isn't it? As it happens you've got the wrong end of the stick here - I'm a firm believer in internet distribution and computer based production - and I think it is the future of techno not to mention music in general. I think in time it will make it BETTER, not worse - it might just take a bit of a transitional phase which is what I think we are starting to go through now. Surely talking about this and understanding it will help us all, yourself included, to make the most of it quickly

Perhaps I could have made that a bit clearer mind. ;)

Where does it say that people enjoy making crap quality music,

Well people don't enjoy making crap music but since when did an artist's judgement about his own work have anything to do with how good it really is? At least with the distributor/label model, for all it's faults, there was an element of outside quality control

Its too easy to make music? No it isnt, the fundamentals of music didnt change overnight you know.

Clearly not, I didn't suggest otherwise

In one respect there are many many many SHITE music writers out there, but the digital revolution gives people HOPE, it opens doors that were closed. And its ALWAYS the young who create and shape trends, rather than the OG's attempting to hang onto markets they created that no longer work.

now you're talking. the music industry, of which techno is sadly a part, is a corrupt, outdated schema which has no place in today's society let alone that of the future.

i'm well up for anything which shakes up the comfortable status quo. as ive already tried to suggest in this thread i'm pretty positive about the future of techno and digital distribution and production is one of the reasons why

[ds2]

..chris lib said a while ago , all this minimal stuff is crap ( just like that ) , why doesn't someone really break the rules and make a minimal track at 150 bpm or something ?
and i agree with that point.

:whoops: i can't believe i just read that.
it's been done already - where do you think the mnml thing came from?
download some rob hood or steve rachmad sets for inspiration.

as for there being no good techno around any more, there's certainly less quality hard stuff but the gems are there and i can't believe a big name dj (for want of a better phrase) is complaining he can't fjnd decent records while in the same sentence admits to only using juno. juno are one of the reasons there's so much shite around - they stock everything and anything with the sole purpose of blowing every other shop away - the good stuff sells out quickly so your left with pages and pages and pages of complete and utter drivel.

try some smaller shops before they all go bankrupt because of lazy juno shoppers, there's 6 shops i know of already that have closed this year and i'm sure there's a lot more up and down the country. the ones i know of all cite juno as the reason.

you produce records don't you? i dare say you're an inspiration to a lot of producers on this board and in the london / hard scene? stop moaning then and do something about it. :;

[davethedrummer]

:whoops: i can't believe i just read that.
it's been done already - where do you think the mnml thing came from?
download some rob hood or steve rachmad sets for inspiration.

as for there being no good techno around any more, there's certainly less quality hard stuff but the gems are there and i can't believe a big name dj (for want of a better phrase) is complaining he can't fjnd decent records while in the same sentence admits to only using juno. juno are one of the reasons there's so much shite around - they stock everything and anything with the sole purpose of blowing every other shop away - the good stuff sells out quickly so your left with pages and pages and pages of complete and utter drivel.

try some smaller shops before they all go bankrupt because of lazy juno shoppers, there's 6 shops i know of already that have closed this year and i'm sure there's a lot more up and down the country. the ones i know of all cite juno as the reason.

you produce records don't you? i dare say you're an inspiration to a lot of producers on this board and in the london / hard scene? stop moaning then and do something about it. :;

ahh the juno reply
i knew that was coming
ok mate keep your hair on

[ds2]

ahh the juno reply
i knew that was coming
ok mate keep your hair on

i've got no hair left unfortunately :ohdear:

yes the juno reply - you're the one complaining you've got a bag full of mediocre records - and i dare say the ones you didn't pick up from tesco are probably promos from circuit producers who should've packed it in 5 years ago.

and they say techno's become stale, i wonder why? :;

[davethedrummer]

i've got no hair left unfortunately :ohdear:

yes the juno reply - you're the one complaining you've got a bag full of mediocre records - and i dare say the ones you didn't pick up from tesco are probably promos from circuit producers who should've packed it in 5 years ago.

and they say techno's become stale, i wonder why? :;

what are you talking about
tesco is a fantastic record shop !
much better than sainburys and cheaper too
and you buy a new pair of trousers and some salad at the same time.

[ds2]

what are you talking about
tesco is a fantastic record shop !
much better than sainburys and cheaper too
and you buy a new pair of trousers and some salad at the same time.

you're right of course, i'm glad there's a tesco on every corner now... and they deliver!
i used to hate having to go in 3 or 4 different grocers to get my weekly shop,
fortunately i'll never have to do that again since all my local grocers are now closed
and boarded up.

[davethedrummer]

you're right of course, i'm glad there's a tesco on every corner now... and they deliver!
i used to hate having to go in 3 or 4 different grocers to get my weekly shop,
fortunately i'll never have to do that again since all my local grocers are now closed
and boarded up.

well you could always get out in the garden and grown your own you lazy sod!
or have you forgotten where food comes from?

[Aratron]

ahh the juno reply
i knew that was coming
ok mate keep your hair on

even the God of Acid Techno makes mistakes

[dubs]

I think there is still loads of great stuff coming out. One issue maybe that a lot of people writing don't come from a musical background so there may be less inclination to write tracks that move beyond a cartain style.