tutorial video sending wrong message

[tocsin]

Can it be confirmed that the tutorial taught sampling? Because, aside from the fact that I have no issue with sampling (and find it almost always hypocritical when brought up in techno), if he was teaching someone how to recreate a drum pattern that they like from scratch, that is entirely different and quite useful. All of us who play an instrument likely learned by originally learning other peoples' songs, no?

[Microdot]

All and any methods of making good music are worth teaching/learning.
There is absolutely no exception to this rule.

[davethedrummer]

ok guys nice points there i getting sum good response , but however i was asking if it is right to do this on tutorial dvd`s on a national magazine which i and many others have to pay a good 5 or 6 quid for ?

cant help feeling a little bit let down if somone is going to steal / sample , wotever from others let them be descrete about it and do it on there own terms , dont blatently go BLA BLA BLA BLA yea do this do that bobs your uncle hears ya freshly stolen track and this is how to do it and diguise it on a national magazine tutorial dvd coz you no wot that`s jus a big fat bollock.

sounds to me like rennie is just being honest
electronic music wouldn't be where it is today without the sampler
espesh drum and bass
it's all about lifting breaks from records
nothing new there really.

now lifting a vocal or something like that
well...maybe thats a bit different
the sampling laws are still unclear due to the nature of sampling itself
but it has to stop somewhere otherwise the police would be round all our houses
and we'd all be nicked for that break beat we sampled ten years ago of some obscure record.
or even just your kick drum collection
you've got a 909 kick in your collection right, hasn't everybody?
you're nicked me old china!
and the prisons would be full of bleary eyed djs' wondering what the f@ck just happened.

[jon connor]

I think it's OK. I for one generally love tutorials.
As baz pointed out it's about what you have to put 'on top' or how YOU can make something totally fresh of the samplage. Copying patterns (not much different than using midi patterns etc.) and cutting kicks etc. is ok IF you can add something to what you borrowed.

yea i agree but how many will edit and how many will just blantantly cant be be bothered ?

[jon connor]

sounds to me like rennie is just being honest
electronic music wouldn't be where it is today without the sampler
espesh drum and bass
it's all about lifting breaks from records
nothing new there really.

now lifting a vocal or something like that
well...maybe thats a bit different
the sampling laws are still unclear due to the nature of sampling itself
but it has to stop somewhere otherwise the police would be round all our houses
and we'd all be nicked for that break beat we sampled ten years ago of some obscure record.
or even just your kick drum collection
you've got a 909 kick in your collection right, hasn't everybody?
you're nicked me old china!
and the prisons would be full of bleary eyed djs' wondering what the f@ck just happened.

hahahaha ok henry you hit the nail on the head that was probably the answer ive bin waiting for cheers everyone for the response.

[tocsin]

now lifting a vocal or something like that
well...maybe thats a bit different
the sampling laws are still unclear due to the nature of sampling itself
but it has to stop somewhere otherwise the police would be round all our houses
and we'd all be nicked for that break beat we sampled ten years ago of some obscure record.

Actually, the copyright laws are very clear on this. If you use someone else's recording in your track, you engaged in criminal copyright infringment unless you have been given express permission to use the recording by its owner, or if the recording is in the public domain. Only reason there aren't more legal letters and threats sent our direction is we aren't on the radar most of the time.

[The_Laughing_Man]

Actually the law isn`t too clear.

US is possibly the worst and downright most against creativity and art (surprise surprise), but european law isn`t quite so clear due to some interesting cases.
My best mate is an expert on international copyright law, and wrote a recent paper on Fair Use and copyright.
Unfortunatley one of the most respected people in copyright law (he`s a bit of a guru in this area)in terms of fair use recently quit pursuing this direction and in a statement on his website cited the draconian and disgusting US precedent in ths aweful legal area.
I linked to a subject all about this here ages ago.


I think I l

[The Overfiend]

get dj premier wit it

[clubsynthetic]

If it's technique that the tutorial is teaching you then i don't see why not... as long at it is not the be all and end all

[tocsin]

Actually the law isn`t too clear.

US is possibly the worst and downright most against creativity and art (surprise surprise), but european law isn`t quite so clear due to some interesting cases.

Were "worse" in that we require less protection than the rest of Europe signed on to with the Berne Convention and other treaties.

My best mate is an expert on international copyright law, and wrote a recent paper on Fair Use and copyright.
Unfortunatley one of the most respected people in copyright law (he`s a bit of a guru in this area)in terms of fair use recently quit pursuing this direction and in a statement on his website cited the draconian and disgusting US precedent in ths aweful legal area.
I linked to a subject all about this here ages ago.

Thing is, though, "fair use" simply does not apply to sampling copyrighted recorded works in music. There's no debate about that internationally. Europe has been more protective of the authors' rights to their own works than the USA was for a long time. I've yet to see a decision come out of a European court that claims the use of a protected and owned original recording in another song does not constitute infringement if permission was not obtained.

[Jay Pace]

I read an article on Mylo's first album.

I think his whole album got cleared because although he used samples each song was demonstrably different to the original, so it was deemed to be a new piece of music.

Don't know the legal ins-and-outs of it, and given how big the album was I'm guessing it got pretty carefully scrutinized but I remember thinking at the time that it sounded a pretty sensible way to do things. Rip off a sample in entirety and you have to pay for borrowing someone elses work. Mangle a sample and it becomes something new, providing its sufficiently mangled.

[davethedrummer]

I read an article on Mylo's first album.

I think his whole album got cleared because although he used samples each song was demonstrably different to the original, so it was deemed to be a new piece of music.

Don't know the legal ins-and-outs of it, and given how big the album was I'm guessing it got pretty carefully scrutinized but I remember thinking at the time that it sounded a pretty sensible way to do things. Rip off a sample in entirety and you
have to pay for borrowing someone elses work. Mangle a sample and it becomes something new, providing its sufficiently mangled.

the basic law itself is clear " if you steal someones stuff you will be in trouble"
pretty clear stuff really , even the bible got that bit right.

thing is : when does a sample stop being a sample and become an/part of an original?

you get these musical copyright experts, musicologists, and they study the piece
electronically , and musically, working out rhythm , key , eq , waveform, etc etc ..

and most importantly deciding whether the sample itself is playing a key part in the track , and whether there is anything to be gained financially by the artist by using it in this way that should be apportioned to the original sampled artist
etc etc..
his decision is the only thing that will settle these issues in a court of law
if it gets to this point.
and so far these guys have been responsible for having thousands of dance music labels prosecuted, and helping james browns estate, among many others.

so musical law is also unclear, in the sense that if your sample is deemed to be sufficiently covered/disguised and of no real financial value to you, then you're ok.

[The_Laughing_Man]

I read an article on Mylo's first album.

I think his whole album got cleared because although he used samples each song was demonstrably different to the original, so it was deemed to be a new piece of music.

Don't know the legal ins-and-outs of it, and given how big the album was I'm guessing it got pretty carefully scrutinized but I remember thinking at the time that it sounded a pretty sensible way to do things. Rip off a sample in entirety and you have to pay for borrowing someone elses work. Mangle a sample and it becomes something new, providing its sufficiently mangled.

Exactly, and there is a movement within legal circles trying to make this a more reasonable system. Battling against the RIAA etc and the US`s increasingly unreasonable legal precident isn`t easy, but there have been some good example cases in europe that are a little encouraging.

If you are blatant then you are doomed, but I think creative use of material is possible without being firect theft.

Otherwise where will this all ultimately lead?
Idea theft is a dangerouse road to head down.
Will the Jimi Hendrix estate claim copyright on some of the sounds that hendrix pioneered that became effects?
Will the inventor of the piano claim all rights to the sound of the piano?



And before you pedantic gimps jump on that comment, yes I know that the inventor of the piano can`t even be traced, isn`t alive, and a piano isn`t a "recorded" piece of music.

[DannyBlack]

you've nicked me old china!

Steady on H, that's quite the accusation.



On a sampling note, yeah I like to sample/steal/borrow loops, vocals etc... It's out there, it's fair game really.

[DannyBlack]

Interesting thought, can they arrest you for whistiling a tune? I mean, it isn't your creation....

[System 47]

given the amount of samplin n techno (and there is buckloads of it) i wouldnt worry about what a breaks producer has to say..

who cares.. sample your ass off..


take hip hop... the whole buzz is built on samplin (NWA - Straight Outta Compton for details) yet Eminem feels the need to threaten ppl over use of his 'nobody listens to techno' hook.. ironic, cheeky or jus plain dumb ?


who gives a f**k tbh.. sample your balls off mateys :)

[System 47]

imo

[DannyBlack]

given the amount of samplin n techno (and there is buckloads of it) i wouldnt worry about what a breaks producer has to say..

who cares.. sample your ass off..


take hip hop... the whole buzz is built on samplin (NWA - Straight Outta Compton for details) yet Eminem feels the need to threaten ppl over use of his 'nobody listens to techno' hook.. ironic, cheeky or jus plain dumb ?


who gives a f**k tbh.. sample your balls off mateys :)

+1

Bollocks to them.

[davethedrummer]

Interesting thought, can they arrest you for whistiling a tune? I mean, it isn't your creation....

well you should definitely be paying the PRS thats for sure !

[DannyBlack]

Everytime I whistle "Summer holiday" by Cliff I watch my back. I can feel him lurking in the shadows just waiting... waiting for royalties.