**** MINIMAL

[SlavikSvensk]

said this a lot in the past, but there is too much of a "track" mentality in techno, not enough of a "song" mentality. people make things with the dancefloor in mind, which is fine, but a lot of producers just crank out product without much thought about how this will stand up over time, or how it will be memorable amid a glut of similar product.

this isn't a new development in any way, shape or form, nor is it unique to techno. but techno isn't new and fresh now either.

[BloodStar]

there is too much of a "track" mentality in techno, not enough of a "song" mentality.

well said.

[koma]

said this a lot in the past, but there is too much of a "track" mentality in techno, not enough of a "song" mentality. people make things with the dancefloor in mind, which is fine, but a lot of producers just crank out product without much thought about how this will stand up over time, or how it will be memorable amid a glut of similar product.

i had this discussion a while ago. people doing tribal or harder techno were moaning how minimal ruined techno, how these producers are switching in it for money bla bla bla, then i asked, how come you dont produce something else, i mean, tribal techno is so 2005, get over it. and where is the funk and soul in tracks created with few loops we already heard dozens times (half of which is from sample cds anyway)... then i got the answer, well it still sells so its ok...

so wtf, who is ruining what?!

[SlavikSvensk]

i had this discussion a while ago. people doing tribal or harder techno were moaning how minimal ruined techno, how these producers are switching in it for money bla bla bla, then i asked, how come you dont produce something else, i mean, tribal techno is so 2005, get over it. and where is the funk and soul in tracks created with few loops we already heard dozens times (half of which is from sample cds anyway)... then i got the answer, well it still sells so its ok...

so wtf, who is ruining what?!

good point. i think if people just made good music, with the aim of making "timeless" music (i.e. something that you might actually still want to listen to in 5 or 10 years), there'd be no problem.

instead, too many people make things you'd want to hear out 5 or 10 years ago. and aside from some improvements in production technique, i'm not sure there's much reason to replace older "dj tracks" with new ones.

but songs, i mean memorable ones with some feeling, thoughtfulness and art to them...well, i'll grab those in a second, whether they are techno, minimal or fill-in-the-blanks.

[Darkmode]

said this a lot in the past, but there is too much of a "track" mentality in techno, not enough of a "song" mentality. people make things with the dancefloor in mind, which is fine, but a lot of producers just crank out product without much thought about how this will stand up over time, or how it will be memorable amid a glut of similar product.

this isn't a new development in any way, shape or form, nor is it unique to techno. but techno isn't new and fresh now either.

I agree I have been saying something like this for quite awhile there is lot of producers out there who have tracks that have no structure when I work on a track I always try to make it structured so it sounds more interesting I look at it as telling a story you have a beginging a middle & an end

there is too many tacks out there that have no soul if you know what I mean?

[Jay Pace]

there is too many tacks out there that have no soul if you know what I mean?

I agree with this, but there's something tedious about hearing the same story endlessly. And there something refreshing about not really having a story, there's no expectations, predictable builds, drops, woosh woosh cliche's etc.

But go too far down that road and you get a load of dull 6 minute loopy "dj tools" where there's not even a nod to structure.

Some sort of balance needed I guess.

[SlavikSvensk]

I agree with this, but there's something tedious about hearing the same story endlessly. And there something refreshing about not really having a story, there's no expectations, predictable builds, drops, woosh woosh cliche's etc.

But go too far down that road and you get a load of dull 6 minute loopy "dj tools" where there's not even a nod to structure.

Some sort of balance needed I guess.

except that "storyless" techno dj tools are a dime a dozen, and have been for 20+ years.

i count predictable buildups and other cliches part and parcel of what it means to be a "track" and not a "song." honestly, i don't think it's at all about how many changes occur or how much stuff is in there. a lot of the most captivating, timeless techno i know is minimalistic and highly repetative. take maurizio, for example. still sounds great.

to me, it's a question of whether the music has something to say beyond BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-SQUELCH, whether it says something that wasn't said 5, 10 or 20 years ago, and whether or not it might be worth listening to 5, 10 or 20 years down the lane.

[CTRLS]

except that "storyless" techno dj tools are a dime a dozen, and have been for 20+ years.

i count predictable buildups and other cliches part and parcel of what it means to be a "track" and not a "song." honestly, i don't think it's at all about how many changes occur or how much stuff is in there. a lot of the most captivating, timeless techno i know is minimalistic and highly repetative. take maurizio, for example. still sounds great.

to me, it's a question of whether the music has something to say beyond BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-SQUELCH, whether it says something that wasn't said 5, 10 or 20 years ago, and whether or not it might be worth listening to 5, 10 or 20 years down the lane.

nice post. i rate mills over a lot people because of his concept albums. total sucker for that whole early detroit sci fi thing and following the development up to stuff like one man spaceship. the last planetary album had some very interesting developments too (love that breakdown in temporary suspension). there are few producer that can make music interesting for both the home listener and the dj.

the main thing that made me loose faith in the whole minimal movement was that i saw so many djs adopt a lazy jukebox set format. the tracks did all the work (and badly). loong breakdowns with predictable buildups, then on to the next mix after the drop, repeat. luckily there are people like hawtin that get a lot more serious but its always sad to see music styles adopt a formulated approach.

[Chis]

I agree I have been saying something like this for quite awhile there is lot of producers out there who have tracks that have no structure when I work on a track I always try to make it structured so it sounds more interesting I look at it as telling a story you have a beginging a middle & an end

there is too many tacks out there that have no soul if you know what I mean?

I wonder if Darkmode realises just how on the mark he is... Not that there isn't any "tracky" techno in my collection (Surgeon? Go Hiyama?), and not that there isn't a place for such music, but this is a problem with ALL dance music genres since the mid 90s. Lots of generic made-for-club nonsense. I try tremendously hard to avoid that "gradual layering trap" in my own music...

[basslinejunkie]

said this a lot in the past, but there is too much of a "track" mentality in techno, not enough of a "song" mentality. people make things with the dancefloor in mind, which is fine, but a lot of producers just crank out product without much thought about how this will stand up over time, or how it will be memorable amid a glut of similar product.

this isn't a new development in any way, shape or form, nor is it unique to techno. but techno isn't new and fresh now either.

your obviously listening to the wrong techno then, or not looking for good stuff hard enough.

[SlavikSvensk]

your obviously listening to the wrong techno then, or not looking for good stuff hard enough.

sorry, mate...there's just not lot of it there. some, yes. a lot, no.

but by all means, post 'em if you got 'em.