Wilson & Fridell - Tonal Path

[Mattias_Fridell]

anyway the tonal path tunes aren't bad at all. i think it's sophisticated and well thought out. much better than "sandwell" for example.

Cheers, thanks man.

While I see you around here I might as well send my compliments for the "World Bleed Together" awesome track for sure.

[gunjack]

ah man thanks for that.

i try to get all kinds of music out not just banging gunjack shit you know? i got this other project called ECHO PARK, first vinyl release out soon on ALL CITY dublin (****ING STOKED ABOUT THIS, the boy SUNIL hooked up the label contact)... feels good to break out of the banging techno mould now and then u know?

i remixed the homie TAKE today check it: TAKE: "NEON BEAMS" (ECHO PARK REMIX)

lots of ppl think that because i also make tunes that are not banging, that i have "gone shit" but i always try to get another banging gunjack 12" or something similar out after a really mellow release so nobody, in the techno world, can talk shit about "GJ sold out" or whatever... also making other genres gets me stoked on techno again when i come back around to it.... all work and no play..... ;)



GJ

[blistanbul]

interesting topic. many points were brought forward by different people.

i want to talk about the point that was raised here that not many techno artist can play any instruments.

how much do you guys think that makes a difference?

would being a good programmer or a music tehnician make up for it?

i mean i was always bit disappointed that even established artist often shy away from using keyboards? wtf?

even a mini-korg incorporated in your 'live' set would make hell of a difference.

[Mattias_Fridell]

Gunjack: I'm right with you on your thinking.

Blistanbul, in my experience the new generation of Techno producers or guys in electronic dance music in general, seem to lack the ability to actually play instruments.
While the older guys often have a broader musical spectrum.
Myself I play piano / keyboards since early age. (I'm really into jazzy stuff, orchestral music and similiar)

I think it makes much difference honestly, the more musical experience you have the more impact it has on the music. Most of the young producers today downloads Ableton and mess with it for some months and demands releases right away, thats the way things look now.

Even if many producers doesn't play traditional instruments they should research more about the background of Techno (aswell as other music, try / learn to play and understand some basics behind music, harmony, rhythms etc) and dance music and definitively sit longer with their productions. Internet provides tons of info and tutorials when it comes to music today but I find much of everything today is lacking the soul needed.

Sometimes it really feels lots of the new tracks is "follow tutorial and internet hype ideas on music forums" machine-style, without going deeper into how stuff works and understand simple routing or and where signals flows and where they go.

Wow this kinda sound like a rant about today's new producers but I didn't intend that, theres many good new guys as well, but the majority is definitly lazy bastards :)

[BloodStar]

I think it makes much difference honestly, the more musical experience you have the more impact it has on the music. Most of the young producers today downloads Ableton and mess with it for some months and demands releases right away, thats the way things look now.

thing is, is it noticeable from the music or not? i mean the difference between musically educated and not educated producer,. In my opinion, very often there is no difference. honestly i didnt notice any depper musicality from the trracks posted in the begining of this thread. sooo?

[Mattias_Fridell]

I didn't say musically educated. Just that producers could be more musically motivated and experienced. Even if you can't notice it on much music it helps the artists to get the result they want faster / better / smoother etc. I mean today much producers dunno shit about how synths works even, or different processing.

[BloodStar]

Yeah I dont doubt it doesnt help artist, but my concern was. Is it noticeable in the output? Very very often, no. Then no difference between musically skilled or not skilled producer from listener point of view. We are speaking about techno music mainly..

Indeed I agree that it a must for anyone to know a synth or fx architecture before using it..

[blistanbul]

guys i want to add another comment.

i understand some of the comments were bit off, but i see this kind of discussion very healthy indeed.

this is a discussion forum not a social network site. correct?

[clubsynthetic]

a laptop is an instrument

[teknonotice]

I didn't say musically educated. Just that producers could be more musically motivated and experienced. Even if you can't notice it on much music it helps the artists to get the result they want faster / better / smoother etc. I mean today much producers dunno shit about how synths works even, or different processing.

I think its a little more "plug and play" in todays music tech world. Software has made many process' simpler, quicker and easier, in order to reach out to more people. IE price of tech has come right down and access to software and tools is a massive open highway in order for the tech manufacturers to sell more kit and to a much wider audience.

Some dont need to understand the equations of signal flows etc etc..its a day of presets and "sound templates". Is that a good or bad thing? Well if you believe music is great release why would you want people to be restricted in what they can do

IMO ;)

Personally I'm an acoustic artist playing a guitar and singing for most of the time - this requires a lot more than plug and play software solutions and a mouse!! Recording such live instruments IMO can be a little more challenging than operating software.

As you can appreciate acoustics start playing a part as do simple things like mic positioning and quality of leads/positioning of leads. (if only my lappy would play a Gibson guitar sound and it sound like a Gibson!)

Understanding scales, music, chord progressions and how to play an instrument should improve your ability to make electronic music..

I move onto making techno and I become impatient. I'm happy bashing my programmed loops out to annoy the community and release some pent up aggresion and energy but it certainly is in its rawest form and done with drum machines.

my point..im not quite sure..

Jamies stuff is well intense and raw where as tonals new stuff a little more laid back and finely constructed..

time and a place for both "types" I feel and more than enough welcoming ears waiting to have a listen or spin it in their set.

Looking forward to hear more Tonal Path as personally I like it.

[teknonotice]

a laptop is an instrument

interesting.

why?

[Mattias_Fridell]

I think its a little more "plug and play" in todays music tech world. Software has made many process' simpler, quicker and easier, in order to reach out to more people. IE price of tech has come right down and access to software and tools is a massive open highway in order for the tech manufacturers to sell more kit and to a much wider audience.

Some dont need to understand the equations of signal flows etc etc..its a day of presets and "sound templates". Is that a good or bad thing? Well if you believe music is great release why would you want people to be restricted in what they can do

IMO ;)

Personally I'm an acoustic artist playing a guitar and singing for most of the time - this requires a lot more than plug and play software solutions and a mouse!! Recording such live instruments IMO can be a little more challenging than operating software.

As you can appreciate acoustics start playing a part as do simple things like mic positioning and quality of leads/positioning of leads. (if only my lappy would play a Gibson guitar sound and it sound like a Gibson!)

Understanding scales, music, chord progressions and how to play an instrument should improve your ability to make electronic music..

I move onto making techno and I become impatient. I'm happy bashing my programmed loops out to annoy the community and release some pent up aggresion and energy but it certainly is in its rawest form and done with drum machines.

my point..im not quite sure..

Jamies stuff is well intense and raw where as tonals new stuff a little more laid back and finely constructed..

time and a place for both "types" I feel and more than enough welcoming ears waiting to have a listen or spin it in their set.

Looking forward to hear more Tonal Path as personally I like it.

I agree with all of the above, but would like to add some points.
I would instead say that templates and presets restricts people rather then the give freedom. Much of the fun is to know how the machines (virtual or not) works and how you can control them, instead of them controlling you :D

Well put with the "Understanding scales, music, chord progressions and how to play an instrument should improve your ability to make electronic music.."

That's exactly my point :)

[teknonotice]

I agree with all of the above, but would like to add some points.
I would instead say that templates and presets restricts people rather then the give freedom. Much of the fun is to know how the machines (virtual or not) works and how you can control them, instead of them controlling you :D

Well put with the "Understanding scales, music, chord progressions and how to play an instrument should improve your ability to make electronic music.."

That's exactly my point :)

:)

oh yeah templates will always restrict - fully agree..think writing replies early morning isn't advised after little sleep ;)

knowing how to tune all your different sounds and layers and having a trained or natural musicians ear SHOULD assist in any music making process. Perhaps more so with big dance anthems, trance - more melody driven dance genres. This said it can make all the difference to a techno track when transposed, or put together with chords and scales in mind. Some naturally fit, some don't. Any sound has a pitch/tune and an be wound down or up.

A trained composer: a pianist for example, may also be more effective at narratives - the actual structure of the song. A music reader may understand intros, bridges etc a little more. Space within the score. Timing - letting it "simmer"

I wonder how many DJ's or producers actually know the sound of a G chord ;)

[JamieBall]

a laptop is an instrument

Yer a ****ing spastic, Rikki B, seriously .... They teach this nonsense at that college of yours ? ;-P

[JamieBall]

Here's a puzzler... What if someone is musically talented but has never picked up a guitar or sat at a keyboard/drumkit or whatever. Actually, scratch that, remove 'drumkit' from the last sentence as everyone knows drummers are unmusical and/or retarded... ANYHOO - My point here being that they may DISCOVER a knack for making music by being exposed to digital methods of doing so - the fact that they can't play guitar in the 1st place doesn't NECCESARILY mean they're not 'cut out' for making "music".

I don't like it when musicality is implied in music, as in 'you're not clever enough to understand whats happening in that track'. Basically, something either works or fails and no amount of anally retentive self belief will change that fact. There should be no real need to go on about the fact that you're an amazing 'musician' or competent at this or that instrument when, in basic fact, the music you're showcasing demonstrates none of this supposed 'skill'.

My point, also, is that many people claim to play this and that instrument but how many of these folks have ever had an official release that is not just plain old techno ? Hmmmm.

Ultimately, unless it's obvious in the music, there's no real reason to bolster your releases with claims that really don't relate to the end output aside from the shamelessly self serving pursuit of 'feeling smug about onesself' ;-)

[JamieBall]

Here's a puzzler... What if someone is musically talented but has never picked up a guitar or sat at a keyboard/drumkit or whatever. Actually, scratch that, remove 'drumkit' from the last sentence as everyone knows drummers are unmusical and/or retarded... ANYHOO - My point here being that they may DISCOVER a knack for making music by being exposed to digital methods of doing so - the fact that they can't play guitar in the 1st place doesn't NECCESARILY mean they're not 'cut out' for making "music".

I don't like it when musicality is implied in music, as in 'you're not clever enough to understand whats happening in that track'. Basically, something either works or fails and no amount of anally retentive self belief will change that fact. There should be no real need to go on about the fact that you're an amazing 'musician' or competent at this or that instrument when, in basic fact, the music you're showcasing demonstrates none of this supposed 'skill'.

My point, also, is that many people claim to play this and that instrument but how many of these folks have ever had an official release that is not just plain old techno ? Hmmmm.

Ultimately, unless it's obvious in the music, there's no real reason to bolster your releases with claims that really don't relate to the end output aside from the shamelessly self serving pursuit of 'feeling smug about onesself' ;-)

This is just a general musing, btw, it's not directed at anyone in particular.
(before you all start crying. AGAIN...)

;-)