music is not ( supposed to be) free!!!!

[davethedrummer]

my god!
i'm trying to keep up with this thread
but everytime i look theres another entire page of text.

one thing i would say to shiva about making a living from music/techno is......

it does seem irresponsible yes i grant you that.
but really what happenned to me was, it just ate up all my time until doing something else just wasn't on the cards any more.

the dj schedule is too chaotic , the studio work needs complete concentration ( i work as a studio engineer for other peolple at least 2 days a week ) , plus the hours of emailing / web based work , organising releases , making my own tracks , telephoning , then add some family chores and thats pretty much it for time.

simple as that really.

i don't think thats iresponsible

a bit odd maybe

but not iresponsible

anyway , great debate

i still want to moan at tocsin 'cos i still don't think he got me right...
but at the end of the day i really can't be assed and the debate has just got positive again.

i'm gonna have to go back and read now.

[tocsin]

tocsin i like your idea
not totally into the way you've been accusing me of whatever.....blah blah
but i like the idea nonetheless.

If I'm coming off as overly rude, my apologies. I get defensive about "free" music since, personally, that's what I prefer. And it just really peeves me when people pretty much equate the "free" scene with kids sitting in their dorm rooms, or parents' basement, downloading copyrighted music from their favorite artists which is for sale. I get particularly defensive about it because that argument is used, over and over again, by the mainstream for-profit industry as a reason to bully and shutdown ALL filesharing services.

i hate to be the sceptic but there are already a lot of mp3 sites, with good techno catalogue's on... what is going
to make this store stand out from the rest and attract the punters.
You really need to have a very direct idea about what your gonna do, otherwise it just wont work or at best it'll
tick along.
i am interested in your idea none the less, but so far you havent convinced me that this store is gonna be any
better than the competition.

Because, in the end, it's not really a store. It's a frontend. As an artist, why bother hyping a store? They often go out of business. They take a large enough chunk out of the sales for you to feel it. The idea would be to set up a domain as something like a permanant autonomous zone for all of us. Since it wouldn't be connected to a physical store, it could live on forever. If members of the admin staff get sick of running it, they pass it off to someone else, etc. Thus, for any artist or label that may decide to promote the site, it's a long-lasting result since there is no reason for it to disappear. The rent is to cheap. Second, the full sale proceeds go directly to the artist or label. There would be no pay or bill management coming from out part. We'd just be a credit register in that sense.

[tocsin]

I'm thinking I might set up an e-mail list for anyone interested in this idea, guys. I can do so when I get home tonight. I don't feel like I'm explaining how I'm looking at the store deal very well in the chaos of these threads. Plus, I'll set up a webpage where there is a flow-chart to show the structure/idea of the thing. We could use the e-mail list to hammer out ideas, have this thing start to take a shape, and then move from there. I'll post the subscribe info for the list later tonight as well. It will be completely private and run off my own server. Thus, not a source of spam.

[imported_sicknote]

damn good idea....

dont let this idea fade people

its somink that can and should be done...

with effort of course

[SlavikSvensk]

wow, 20 pages, have we learned anything yet????

either too much or too little. i'm not quite sure which

[koma]

one thing is sure, BOA has great potential, from which can all benefit (and I dont think on money)

[fresh_an_funky_design]

Because, in the end, it's not really a store. It's a frontend. As an artist, why bother hyping a store? They often go out of business. They take a large enough chunk out of the sales for you to feel it. The idea would be to set up a domain as something like a permanant autonomous zone for all of us. Since it wouldn't be connected to a physical store, it could live on forever. If members of the admin staff get sick of running it, they pass it off to someone else, etc. Thus, for any artist or label that may decide to promote the site, it's a long-lasting result since there is no reason for it to disappear. The rent is to cheap. Second, the full sale proceeds go directly to the artist or label. There would be no pay or bill management coming from out part. We'd just be a credit register in that sense.

i like the idea but still not 100% what it exacltly is.

Although straight sway the fact that the label gets 100% has me worried. This business needs to have some sort of income to pay advertising, webspace, admin costs.

[SlavikSvensk]

i like the idea but still not 100% what it exacltly is.

Although straight sway the fact that the label gets 100% has me worried. This business needs to have some sort of income to pay advertising, webspace, admin costs.

bingo. but if it's a co-operative, as i mentioned like 4 pages ago, the labels act as partners in the enterprise, share costs and also profits.

[djshiva]

my god!
i'm trying to keep up with this thread
but everytime i look theres another entire page of text.

one thing i would say to shiva about making a living from music/techno is......

it does seem irresponsible yes i grant you that.
but really what happenned to me was, it just ate up all my time until doing something else just wasn't on the cards any more.

the dj schedule is too chaotic , the studio work needs complete concentration ( i work as a studio engineer for other peolple at least 2 days a week ) , plus the hours of emailing / web based work , organising releases , making my own tracks , telephoning , then add some family chores and thats pretty much it for time.

simple as that really.

i don't think thats iresponsible

a bit odd maybe

but not iresponsible

anyway , great debate

i guess in some ways i am lucky to have a day job flexible enough to be able to pursue music as well. and luckily i like my job too. i don't necessarily BLAME anyone for doing what they love to make money. but i have been a musician in some form since i was a teenager (that was a long time ago), and at least here in the states, i gave up the notion that this was gonna be a "career" a while back. that doesn't mean i would blow it off if it happened, just that the reality is there are a gerbajillion djs and a gerbajillion producers, and even the most talented can linger in obscurity with those kinda odds.

if ya fall into it, rockin! but the entertainment world has always been fickle, and after struggling as a DJ/musician for years (even with a day job; still no health insurance tho...my teeth are falling out of my head), i just don't count on the income anymore.

kudos to those who have. not trying to slag you guys at all. and i think this whole thing is a positive conversation to have. :)

[SlavikSvensk]

there isn't any one right way to do things or how to live your life. if it works, it works. if it doesn't, it doesn't. that's really all there is to it.

[djshiva]

true enough.

[fresh_an_funky_design]

i like the idea but still not 100% what it exacltly is.

Although straight sway the fact that the label gets 100% has me worried. This business needs to have some sort of income to pay advertising, webspace, admin costs.

bingo. but if it's a co-operative, as i mentioned like 4 pages ago, the labels act as partners in the enterprise, share costs and also profits.

but shurely if its a co-operative then, it needs to stil take some percentage on sales so as to share out between investors, as not every label that signs up is gonna wanna be an investor. Some will just want the service and receive x amount for track sales

[SlavikSvensk]

i like the idea but still not 100% what it exacltly is.

Although straight sway the fact that the label gets 100% has me worried. This business needs to have some sort of income to pay advertising, webspace, admin costs.

bingo. but if it's a co-operative, as i mentioned like 4 pages ago, the labels act as partners in the enterprise, share costs and also profits.

but shurely if its a co-operative then, it needs to stil take some percentage on sales so as to share out between investors, as not every label that signs up is gonna wanna be an investor. Some will just want the service and receive x amount for track sales

of course. but those costs would be lower (since it would draw on existing resources) and the enterprise would reflect the needs and desires of the labels as partners, rather than just the enterprise itself

[fresh_an_funky_design]

what exactly do u mean by existing resources?

[tocsin]

Existing resources = things which random people in the community own or lease already and are willing to share (server space, bandwidth, etc.).

[RDR]

That;ll take some mighty organisation...

interesting idea though.

[abloke]

Hi,

havn't read all this topic. but I understand all the frustration that an artist can have when it comes to illeagal downloads.

Alas, they have shutdown the Razorback server, big news for the stop in all piracy. But what happens, someone else finds a new way to transfer files. P2P is a biggy at the moment, and like it or not, it's going to happen. to the anger of everyone, people will find a new way to sharing files ileagally. Preventing sharing appears not to be the solution as the internet is out of control.

France seem to have a reasonably good ide that they are debating at the moment. If you have an internet connection, you pay an extra fee which goes to record companies and film companies etc. It will be hard to organise this fairly with different labels and companies, but possible.

Internet is getting faster, and more and more people are on broadband, and more people know how to use e-donkey, limewire, and any bit torrent software. The problem is very hard to solve when it comes to beating people at the game which they are better at.

[Athar]

im agree with you henry 100000%, that what i said you in pm before, everywhere is plenty of thivers but its really pain when your near freinds and peeps whos you trust try rob you and we see its happen all the time ....
its a war, we cant win but we can do something, JUST SUPPORT and **** the mp3s.

[Analog.1]

I think the way forward is for artists to sell their own directly via the internet.

I dont think selling compressed audio formats like MP3s to people is the way forward. If you own a MP3 you dont own the whole song, you own a compressed version of the song which means there is lots of audio information missing which will effect sound quality. Theres something not quite right about it... Its like buying a new car but a part of the engine is missing (but u might not notice so its ok)... lame.

Artists could sell CDs or distribute uncompressed .wav/.aiff files of tracks online, they will obviously take longer to download but at least your getting the real deal , I think anyone who values music will be more than happy to download / buy uncompressed audio directly from the artist including me...

[holotropik]

http://www.futureofmusicbook.com/

A blog written by a dude who has done some massive amounts of research, worth a read....