you will shoot me for saying it but....

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Originally Posted by AcidTrash

Techno went up its own arse a while ago. The moment people started stigmatising tunes with a sense of humour as being hard dance or cheese.

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I would say 5 years ago at least this is what was going on... Not with everyone but elements of snootiness were around, which was in relation to Paul Cortex' comments there...

We didn't care tho and played all the Acid we had...

What about these babies that came from yourself Henry:

The Pusher, The Pimp & The Panther :rockin:
http://www.discogs.com/release/74820

Viagra Falls :fro:
http://www.discogs.com/release/31661

This Old World is in a Helluva Fix :psy:
http://www.discogs.com/release/56162

Hells bells, moments in time that I will never forget came from these tunes - what was going on in the studio that created these little beauties...?

Can the energy that went in to creating these tracks be harnessed again?

What are you after? techno that pushes the boundaries? Not scared to be the pioneer and actually experiment with soundscapes and the frequencies to which we are accustomed? You are right about modern techno all sounding the same. Stupid genre names like tech-house which really means (I make commercial music, but like to pretend I'm techno - the original concept))

I have a few acid techno sets from 1996 - 1998. All have crazy sounds and are experimental. hard tuneage that makes you want to stomp while your body is desperate to move in sync with each new wierd and wonderful sound. True organised chaos.

What happened to those experimental days? All the producers wanted more money and then watered down techno until it was received by a larger audience, thus rendering more income for the producers. The same thing happened in hard trance where they started producing watered down crap just to tap into the commercial market where massive income is to be earned. It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out that modern trance and techno has turned into a pathetic example of its original heritage.

It's the producers' fault and the listeners. You say things sound the same, yet you go and buy them. You know what I did when Hardcore (industrial) went all frenchcore (cheese), I stopped buying the vinyl. I made a statement with what can hurt an industry. Sure, I am only one person, but if you all made a statement, then things would change.

You produce records that won't offend people. You are scared of making a track that sounds too 'hardcore' for your commercial market, so you produce the same crap that has little invention. It's an embarrassment to the word 'Techno'.

La Peste goes to factories and records the industrial sounds he hears and also records sounds from railway lines and many other strange and diverse practices, he then goes home and manipulates the sounds and is always experimenting. How many techno producers actually get off their arse and do likewise?

I'm sick of listening to people in the street who tell me they like techno and then when I enquire further, I find out they mean some stale music at 125-140bpm with a carbon copy beat and the odd inoffensive loop every now and then.

If you want to try something that is still developing and will blow your mind, then have a click on the links below... The experimental peak of 'techno' and still pushing the boundaries

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MMMhoMFs7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAjZhI9Iow0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4GFkpKbvZU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LJZdjUDd8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKOGnXf1A6Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyNQiuBKBYQ

WTF is all that about???

this stuff is not my cup of tea and would empty most dancefloors i play to,
its just not dancefloor/party/punter friendly,
we are talking about re including the punters not frightening them

to quote henry-

"we need TUNES , real jump up raving out of you head anthems , not more heads down , tribal washing machine grooves or cut up hip hop unintelligable vocal mish mashes.

a spot of melody , an acid line , but a concept , and a strong original one ,
thats what rocks the dancefloor evrywhere!
booom!"

littlefella is right....we want the energy back! long live acid techno!

Frightening them? What I am then? oblivious to this sound? Or am I open-minded enough to hear the beauty in this particular invention? Dance floor friendly? That sounds like some gatecrasher comment. What the hell is that anyway? If you are in an 80s bar then blondie is dance floor friendly. If you are at vibealite, then scott brown is dancefloor friendly. If you are at a dNb night then Hype is dance floor friendly. If you are at some crap bar in town, then commercial clubland music is dance floor friendly.

The term itself is nonsensical. I can quite easily dance to 'flashcore' or any form of hardcore above 160bpm.... but give me something slower and i can't move to it. it's too slow. You have to dance like a bird with all your effeminate moves and you look like a tit. How can anyone move their body so slowly and feel comfortable? You just end up looking like a lady boy such as Justin timberlake.

What are you trying to achieve? more listeners? If that's what you want then start playing gatecrasher.

If it's the music you wish to advance rather than the number of participants then it's going to take something radical.

Those who push the boundaries and carry on inventing new sounds always leave genres and produce something on their own...then the previous genre becomes stale, just like your staple 'techno' scene now.

venetian snares
la peste
ed flis

All moving in their own direction producing something you don't affiliate with many others...

Or you can go the other way and producers start to produce music for the masses and the genre they were once pioneers in, also falls apart...

eg sell outs ... then all the wannabes who are part of the 'hero-worship' of these former pioneers remain and copy this music - thus, the previous genre (in all its glory) has taken on a ghost image of dilute techno with added sweeteners.

Shout going out to the aspartame crew.. haha

This music is more like painting with sounds....pictures with sounds...this thread was started by Henry with the aim of discussing how we can restore techno (and acid techno) to the credible entity that it should be, im not saying that this music does not have its place, just not on the dance floors we are refering to...THIS IS THE ACID TECHNO SECTION!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phantomdj

Frightening them? What I am then? oblivious to this sound? Or am I open-minded enough to hear the beauty in this particular invention? Dance floor friendly? That sounds like some gatecrasher comment. What the hell is that anyway? If you are in an 80s bar then blondie is dance floor friendly. If you are at vibealite, then scott brown is dancefloor friendly. If you are at a dNb night then Hype is dance floor friendly. If you are at some crap bar in town, then commercial clubland music is dance floor friendly.

The term itself is nonsensical. I can quite easily dance to 'flashcore' or any form of hardcore above 160bpm.... but give me something slower and i can't move to it. it's too slow. You have to dance like a bird with all your effeminate moves and you look like a tit. How can anyone move their body so slowly and feel comfortable? You just end up looking like a lady boy such as Justin timberlake.

What are you trying to achieve? more listeners? If that's what you want then start playing gatecrasher.

If it's the music you wish to advance rather than the number of participants then it's going to take something radical.

Those who push the boundaries and carry on inventing new sounds always leave genres and produce something on their own...then the previous genre becomes stale, just like your staple 'techno' scene now.

venetian snares
la peste
ed flis

All moving in their own direction producing something you don't affiliate with many others...

Or you can go the other way and producers start to produce music for the masses and the genre they were once pioneers in, also falls apart...

eg sell outs ... then all the wannabes who are part of the 'hero-worship' of these former pioneers remain and copy this music - thus, the previous genre (in all its glory) has taken on a ghost image of dilute techno with added sweeteners.

Shout going out to the aspartame crew.. haha

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If I want to hear a bag of spanners falling into a spinning propellor, I'll do a wingwalk on the Crunchie bi-plane and lob a toolkit and listen REALLY hard to the next 2 minutes as the engine disintergrates around me sending metallic thrashing sounds crossed with the wind, a grating of metal and ultimately a crash as the plane impacts into the ground.

I don't want to hear that though. It's just not my cup of tea.

My cup of tea is made of throbbing basslines, screeching 303's and a vocal telling me that "it's the plumber".

Horses for courses though innit.

''My cup of tea is made of throbbing basslines, screeching 303's and a vocal telling me that "it's the plumber".''

Then start listening to the DJ Producer or Promo. :-)

will the plumber please put the wheels back on the washing machine so it can spin it's way out of the musical ghetto wherein it finds itself!!

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Originally Posted by paulcortex

i guess techno (especially acid techno)has painted itself into a corner...and unless some serious rethinking is done then our favourite genre may just have its days numbered.

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Thats what I've been saying for ages man.

Take the sound back to its roots before it's too late.

In my opinion (and some of my friends), many DJs in the electronic scene are a bit too much in love with the form and are forgetting about the content, THE SUBSTANCE, the vibe, the spirit, the passion. We should use music to transport emotions. A good party night can be a cathartic journey through all emotional states and should be a healing experience. Thats what we working for.
Its all about expressing and evoking personal freedom, CELEBRATING LIFE!

It's all "wow! check out the production" and not enough good track ideas...

here what your saying si, but for every person that wants old style acid there are more saying that sounds old style we want new sounds!

I think that music needs to be seen as "cool" to attract more people to the fray, both listeners and producers. How many times do you hear ANY acid classics played out? I mean anything from the early/mid 90s American, German, UK scenes? I have gone back to being in love with this music, but I also have the luxury of owning a huge amount of it. Most people just don't know what they missed, and they have no way of hearing it. If no one is playing it, few people know about it. The classic sound needs to be hammered back into the collective consciousness to hopefully sow the seeds again for more music that draws on it for inspiration.

Personally, I have never seen Techno as having the same lifespan as music with a Trance structure. In all my years of loving dance music, I have never just whacked an 8 minute loopy Techno track on as listening music. That sort of music is about being in the mix, which will always limit it. We needs tracks that have a story and all that cliched bullshit.

I'll probably get slagged for this, but the only new music I find exciting is the stuff on labels like Cocoon, Border Community, Traum, etc.. BC especially has blown me away with many tracks from young producers who seem to have decided to ignore genre traps and just mash all influences together in a very intelligent way. Check out James Holden, Minilogue, Petter, Extrawelt, etc.. Maybe not music to gurn to, but it at least shows that it's still quite possible to be original and meaningful. And funny how recognition just followed for them as a result of doing music with integrity.

Rambleramble

Oh, and the apathy thing is real across ALL areas of life right now. Here in the USA, people have apparently decided that their TVs are large enough that they don't need to pay attention to our horribly corrupt government. We're just happy to see the latest Let's Make Some Twat A Celebrity - SEE? It Could Happen To You!! drivel. If there's no rebellious spirit left, then art suffers as a result. People are docile cows now, so their modes of expression have no real passion and creativity. Their output is the equivalent of a cow's moo.

**** me, just lost a long post

Basically, modern people = docile = weak art

Our TVs have become distracting ennough that we have no passion for rebellion and the art that it creates.

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Originally Posted by the_psychologist

Most people just don't know what they missed, and they have no way of hearing it. If no one is playing it, few people know about it. The classic sound needs to be hammered back into the collective consciousness to hopefully sow the seeds again for more music that draws on it for inspiration.

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Exacly, every year we have less and less people who remember old school records. They just leave from music indriusty or they stop producing music.
I not mean only they can get us for new inspiration or make techno music better now, but i think they can make a track by tools with cant used 15 years ago because this tools didnt exist yet.
Why just not use the simple old idea and make a tune by using modern tools for making the music ?
How many of us remember old acid records from 1990 to 1994 ?
I quess not too many but i believe here on boa its the bigest collective producers who still remember this great golden era.
My suggest could be > go back to harthouse label and listen all this old records again, they have everything what we need to get new, great acid tune.

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Originally Posted by nihilist

here what your saying si, but for every person that wants old style acid there are more saying that sounds old style we want new sounds!

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So do I mate, but with some old skool love and thought.

Look at the tripe that's coming out on SUF soon, that new one by Chris & Guy.

Now look back deep within your record collection and pull out tracks by these two.

How the fu*k did they go from absolute monster track to this trash?

Fair play, the productions great, but the track sucks.

And as retro as I might sound, I'm not calling people to just remake classic tracks. I just think there was an energy and attention to detail in those old Acid Techno/Trance tunes that is often missing these days, and people who are never exposed to them cannot draw on them for inspiration.

There's a reason i can still whack them on 10 to 15 years later and just listen, you know?

Maybe producers think they will win the battle by putting out more tracks, faster, but it just dilutes everything that makes underground dance music good.

Sorry for flogging this old horse again...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the_psychologist

And as retro as I might sound, I'm not calling people to just remake classic tracks. I just think there was an energy and attention to detail in those old Acid Techno/Trance tunes that is often missing these days, and people who are never exposed to them cannot draw on them for inspiration.

There's a reason i can still whack them on 10 to 15 years later and just listen, you know?

Maybe producers think they will win the battle by putting out more tracks, faster, but it just dilutes everything that makes underground dance music good.

Sorry for flogging this old horse again...

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My thoughts exactly.

Too many "throw away tracks" are being hammered out. Where's the quality control gone?

well its up to the punters and djs to stop buying this shite and then perhaps the labels might take notice...just because its stay up forever does not mean its going to be a quality release...
Dont get me wrong in the "good ol'days" i would have just seen the stay up forever label and bought it just on that alone, you could be sure it would be a barn storming acid monster, but since the "change" the label seems to have started lowering its sights and releasing anything that guy,chris et all can produce...wheres the rip roaring 303 riffs and the trancy/trippy elements???
if they do indeed want to "stay up forever" they should start broadening the artists they use (like us for instance!! lol) or perhaps they might just become stay at the dole office forever...and we dont want that!!!!