Has all this technology changed for the better?

[SlavikSvensk]

I have to say, I love it. I'm feeling like a kid in a sweet shop. But there's one thing, and it's the only thing that's negative about this. How are producers going to make a living out of this? Well in 1985 I think you could have said the same thing. I think then, producers wondered how they would be able to break into the vinyl market, but they did. Right now, it's all about digital. Techno producers and all underground ppl have to get into the whole digital way of selling their music and it's gonna take time.

Mind you, it's a bloody great time for innovation. You just can't deny this...

not sure i agree with you. is techno really more innovative now than in the past? i don't think it is, and i also think it has very little to do with technology itself, but everything to do with how long the music's been around for. few producers are really taking chances (though some are) with established formula, while the ever increasing number of labels out there are more and more focused on doing a particular thing rather than just putting out the best techno there is.

again, there are notable exceptions to this, but IMHO this is the overall state of techno and i don't think it's terribly positive.

hardware and software are parts of a toolkit. new stuff = new tools. new tools = potential new opportunities. but in the end, as davethedrummer has said in another post recently, nothing can make up for good writing or mask bad writing.

[dirty_bass]

few producers are really taking chances (though some are) with established formula, while the ever increasing number of labels out there are more and more focused on doing a particular thing rather than just putting out the best techno there is.

.

I would say this is a little bit of a circular situation, because yes I agree producers are less inclined to take chances and meddle with the format, but also, I would say DJ`s are just as unadventurous in their musical choice as a whole.
DJ X only plays this sub-niche
DJ Y only plays this sub-niche

So it`s hard to produce interesting techno for a majority of DJ`s who basically just like ramming the loops together on the decks.

[RDR]

I would say this is a little bit of a circular situation, because yes I agree producers are less inclined to take chances and meddle with the format, but also, I would say DJ`s are just as unadventurous in their musical choice as a whole.
DJ X only plays this sub-niche
DJ Y only plays this sub-niche

So it`s hard to produce interesting techno for a majority of DJ`s who basically just like ramming the loops together on the decks.

@Slavik - what evidence have you got for that statement? I dont think thats the case AT ALL.

@Dirty Bass - Yes, people dont like meddling with the format, but why is that? Because there has been this attitude for so long "Get with the program or you wont get released" make some music that sounds like "this" or "this" and you might get a release. Mainly this was ever thus, journo's, reviewers and DJs like things in easily digestible format as it makes their life easier.

In particuar DJ's like playing a genre as they can learn to manipuate it and it makes playing the records easier to accomplish with some success.

But we have gone beyond that now. Or rather we are moving beyond that... there is now the opporunity to create on the fly and remix on the fly and THAT is the future for DJing. Not to say that all the old skills get abandoned, far from it. Its time DJ's learnt to add skills to their arsenal and get rid, once and for all of the "DJ's are not musicians" bullshit which has hung around them like a bad smell for far too long. (scuse the rhetoric :) )

The digital music market is still young and in terms of global market share this is what the IFPI had to say about 2004.

Accelerated growth in digital sales

2004 was a landmark year for the growth of digital services. Over 180 legitimate music download services were launched globally in 2004. There are now well over 300 sites in total, with at least 200 in Europe.

Music catalogue available on the major services doubled in 2004 to over one million tracks, while subscriber figures now top 2.2 million. Sales of digital music players continue to increase, spurring growth in online music. The launch of 3G services by major operators has given a boost to the download music to mobile market.

In addition, sales of physical product over the internet are growing rapidly reaching 15% in Germany, 10% in the UK and 6% in the US. The internet was the fastest-growing retail channel for CD sales in 2004.

The BPI had this to say

New figures released today by UK record labels association the BPI show that the industry has remained ahead of the curve in digital, with 90% of all singles now sold through online and mobile platforms, while digital album sales are beginning to have a significant impact on the albums market.

With 60 million album sales in the first half of 2007, the UK market remains strong in a time of significant challenges for the global recorded music industry. The CD remains hugely popular with 96.5% of these albums sold as physical product.

The first half of the year saw digital album sales grow rapidly. Album bundles with extra tracks, videos and sleeve artwork offer excellent value-for-money for consumers, whilst iTunes' variable pricing on album bundles and the "complete my album" facility have all helped to drive album sales. The iTunes Live Music Festival throughout July looks set to give a further boost to the digital albums market.

7Digital launched a consumer-facing store in May with high-quality album bundles and a "downloads locker", a key part of its offering.

Sales soared to more than 2.1 million units during the first half and passed the
100,000 weekly sales mark for the first time in June. This has offset 23% of the drop in CD album sales - a sign that digital sales are starting to have a real impact on the albums market.

But despite the increasing choice available to consumers from digital, many
consumers still prefer the convenience and value for money offered by compilation CDs, sales of which increased by 2.6% in the first six months of the year

Dave the D was right, you cant mask good or bad writing. But then what on earth makes anyone think that digital releases will mask good writing? Did everyone suddenly all turn deaf? You know good music when you hear it - and like i said in answer to dave, the opporunities have increased TEN fold, dont be afraid of the rubbbish that will come out, because the opporunities which led to the pile of musical nonsense coming out will lead to WAY more roses growing in the pile of crap.

All this negativity is being directed towards the situation people believe themselves to be in - one in which they wont earn money from music.

Why?

Is it that we believe technology will make the ability to write music availble to everyone then everyone will write good music? or that they will be swamped by tracks? The music writing process is a long one, there are no shortcuts to it. What people are really afraid of, wether they know it or not is the gobalisation of the world music market. We will start to see music coming out or countries that were never part of what we have now. I firmly believe techno wil change, it always has done and always will do.

I was saying to a friend last night that i personally find it utterly ridiculous that the most negativity i have seen towards technology in music in recent weeks has come from people i know on this forum.... techno heads no less. whats going on? why are we refusing to accept the change? it goes against everything we stand for.

Sure digital labels have a responsibility to release good music, but they will also (like it or not) release within niche genres' because now they can - this is a good thing, this is where new music comes from. innovation, creation and opporunity. If we dont embrace this we will get left behind. simple as.

[SlavikSvensk]

@Slavik - what evidence have you got for that statement? I dont think thats the case AT ALL.

@Dirty Bass - Yes, people dont like meddling with the format, but why is that? Because there has been this attitude for so long "Get with the program or you wont get released" make some music that sounds like "this" or "this" and you might get a release. Mainly this was ever thus, journo's, reviewers and DJs like things in easily digestible format as it makes their life easier.

In particuar DJ's like playing a genre as they can learn to manipuate it and it makes playing the records easier to accomplish with some success.

But we have gone beyond that now. Or rather we are moving beyond that... there is now the opporunity to create on the fly and remix on the fly and THAT is the future for DJing. Not to say that all the old skills get abandoned, far from it. Its time DJ's learnt to add skills to their arsenal and get rid, once and for all of the "DJ's are not musicians" bullshit which has hung around them like a bad smell for far too long. (scuse the rhetoric :) )

The digital music market is still young and in terms of global market share this is what the IFPI had to say about 2004.



The BPI had this to say





Dave the D was right, you cant mask good or bad writing. But then what on earth makes anyone think that digital releases will mask good writing? Did everyone suddenly all turn deaf? You know good music when you hear it - and like i said in answer to dave, the opporunities have increased TEN fold, dont be afraid of the rubbbish that will come out, because the opporunities which led to the pile of musical nonsense coming out will lead to WAY more roses growing in the pile of crap.

All this negativity is being directed towards the situation people believe themselves to be in - one in which they wont earn money from music.

Why?

Is it that we believe technology will make the ability to write music availble to everyone then everyone will write good music? or that they will be swamped by tracks? The music writing process is a long one, there are no shortcuts to it. What people are really afraid of, wether they know it or not is the gobalisation of the world music market. We will start to see music coming out or countries that were never part of what we have now. I firmly believe techno wil change, it always has done and always will do.

I was saying to a friend last night that i personally find it utterly ridiculous that the most negativity i have seen towards technology in music in recent weeks has come from people i know on this forum.... techno heads no less. whats going on? why are we refusing to accept the change? it goes against everything we stand for.

Sure digital labels have a responsibility to release good music, but they will also (like it or not) release within niche genres' because now they can - this is a good thing, this is where new music comes from. innovation, creation and opporunity. If we dont embrace this we will get left behind. simple as.

don't think you quite got my point, dude. as i said earlier, and i think dirtybass would agree, the problem with techno today has f*ck-all to do with technology. technology SHOULD create new oppportunities. but, in the end, opportunities are taken by people. techno, to me, has a people problem right now, and has had for years. not enough new people listening to the music, too many overspecialized producer, dj and label people. both supply and demand, as i see it based on years of listening to techno, show less and less stress on originality and song-ness and more and more on categorizability and track-ness. so techno, IMO, has a writing, releasing and performing problem. it would have this problem regardless of ableton or mp3s.

as for new technology, of course we should embrace it. but we should do so to bring on more quality, daring music. stuff that sounds different, memorable rather than safe.

*EDIT* i'm talking very generally ^^ and don't want to be categorical. i should add that there are indeed GREAT, original producers, labels, djs etc still out there. just not as many as i'd like and, IMO, not as high a percentage as there were...

[Little_Fella!]

I believe that all this new technology can only be a good thing...

It should be embraced, especially by those of us who are purveyors of Techno as a musical genre...

For me, from the creative point of view, the whole idea of the word is the ethos that we are using the best most up to date musical tools that we have ever had the good fortune to get our hands on...

We can let loose our creative abilities in such a way that has never been equalled - a musical paint pallet that has a million colours to blend, shape and texture...:)

[Little_Fella!]

In reference to Dave the Drummers' post in the acid forum, surely the fact that we have all these highly sophisticated musical tools at our disposal should generate enthusiasm that can be focused on our music making...

This much needed energy and excitement is what is required when marching into the studio thinking, 'I'm going to try something new today!!'...:psy:

That creative energy just flows then and thats when the real gems are born...

[RDR]

don't think you quite got my point, dude. as i said earlier, and i think dirtybass would agree, the problem with techno today has f*ck-all to do with technology. technology SHOULD create new oppportunities. but, in the end, opportunities are taken by people. techno, to me, has a people problem right now, and has had for years. not enough new people listening to the music, too many overspecialized producer, dj and label people. both supply and demand, as i see it based on years of listening to techno, show less and less stress on originality and song-ness and more and more on categorizability and track-ness. so techno, IMO, has a writing, releasing and performing problem. it would have this problem regardless of ableton or mp3s.

as for new technology, of course we should embrace it. but we should do so to bring on more quality, daring music. stuff that sounds different, memorable rather than safe.

*EDIT* i'm talking very generally ^^ and don't want to be categorical. i should add that there are indeed GREAT, original producers, labels, djs etc still out there. just not as many as i'd like and, IMO, not as high a percentage as there were...

O.k i get your point, but i still think you need to be more specific, who has made this problem worse? Is it because inward thinking producers in a specific country, genre or label? i'd be very hard to pin it down to any one of these.

"Not enough new people listening to the music" but yet there is an appetite for electronic sounds, even in the pop world. The potentia audience is there, but promoters need to be figuring out how to get them into the clubs and into the music again.

Genre specialism and club nights which concentrated solely on one type of music (I agree) have been around for far too long. And have only served to bore me to tears in the main.

We actualy agree on a lot of points, but you did say that techno is not as innovative as it was in the past, this i have to take issue with - mainly for positive reasons, somewhere out in the world there are new and innovative ideas waiting to appear, and right now is THE best time there has been for techno. Now is the time for labels to appear that take opportunities they couldnt before - releasing al that fantastic music thats out there because the risk factor is low. ITs just right now its early days and we are still seeing attitudes changing slowly.

personaly im finding the whole time we are in REALLY exciting! i dont think there has been a more exciting time for techno EVER.

People are always the biggest resource in any music scene and i think a break from the past would be VERY healthy for techno right now, and a re-examination of what techno means is necessary.

My definition of techno goes thus:

Electronic music is all techno, there are no boundaries and no internal definitions - DJS should be abe to play all of it within a set without feeling like they are not being cohesive. Producers need to be able to explore their creativity without being stifled by formulae.

Digital music labels and technology allow for that experimentation, the question is - who is going to take the opporunity? The old school or the new school? Abnd a greater question is - will those with slow moving attitudes be able to keep with the changes and welcome them with open arms?

[SlavikSvensk]

My definition of techno goes thus:

Electronic music is all techno, there are no boundaries and no internal definitions - DJS should be abe to play all of it within a set without feeling like they are not being cohesive. Producers need to be able to explore their creativity without being stifled by formulae.

the def ^^ is exactly what i want to see more of. and i hope to see more labels come out that don't just release a very specific sound, but just great music.

[RDR]

the def ^^ is exactly what i want to see more of. and i hope to see more labels come out that don't just release a very specific sound, but just great music.

Thats what ive been hoping to do...! ;)

[Little_Fella!]

personaly im finding the whole time we are in REALLY exciting! i dont think there has been a more exciting time for techno EVER.

People are always the biggest resource in any music scene and i think a break from the past would be VERY healthy for techno right now, and a re-examination of what techno means is necessary.

My definition of techno goes thus:

Electronic music is all techno, there are no boundaries and no internal definitions - DJS should be abe to play all of it within a set without feeling like they are not being cohesive. Producers need to be able to explore their creativity without being stifled by formulae.

Digital music labels and technology allow for that experimentation, the question is - who is going to take the opporunity? The old school or the new school? Abnd a greater question is - will those with slow moving attitudes be able to keep with the changes and welcome them with open arms?

I personally feel this way too...

All these points are bang on and yes, who will allow themselves to embrace what essentially has to be a new era...

[SlavikSvensk]

I would say this is a little bit of a circular situation, because yes I agree producers are less inclined to take chances and meddle with the format, but also, I would say DJ`s are just as unadventurous in their musical choice as a whole.
DJ X only plays this sub-niche
DJ Y only plays this sub-niche

So it`s hard to produce interesting techno for a majority of DJ`s who basically just like ramming the loops together on the decks.

totally agree, dude.