i dunno.. i think when you're talking within such specific genres its a little hard to liken artists to one another as the similarities are more within the sound than anything else.
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i dunno.. i think when you're talking within such specific genres its a little hard to liken artists to one another as the similarities are more within the sound than anything else.
a lot of techno does sound the same, most people have the same influences and this sprials into your tracks, i dont think anyone intends to copy anyone, i think its just a case of being into the same kinda sound.
eh? how do you know which tracks have been written on ableton then? The answer is you can't, it doesn't matter what the music is written on, a badly written tune is a badly written tune, no matter if it was written on cubase, ableton, logic or pro tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aratron
Seems these days because alot of sales are down, even more people are jumping on the latest bandwagons to make ends meat.
I just wish every artist out there would write what comes out of their heart, that's whats lacking these days
exactly.. nothing to do with software.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan the acid man
sure werent some recent hydrualix done on ableton?
well i obviously made a crassly narrow-minded statement there based on 0% insight into music production, i have heard stuff from Force written on Ableton and it has sounded amazing and i know the divide writes stuff on cubase and that is shit hot aswellQuote:
Originally Posted by dan the acid man
however you look on todays techno on Juno, each track sounds the same or imo is boring as hell, thats why i love acidt echno at its best, its creative, funny, dark , emotional or at least it was.
Creativity, in my mind, is all about energy, drive, motivation and excitement about what you are creating...
When this has waned then it shows in finished product... tunes can be lacklustre with no sense of direction or purpose...
Developing purpose is the most important elixir for creativity...:)
its all in the trip...i love making trippy and spaced out sounds...and for me the tb303 fits the gap nicely...its not all about acid though...most tracks these days have lost the trippy edge....not hypnotic in the musical sense...they tend to rely on drum loops to do this...monotonous 909 drum loops with a smidge of compression and no real direction...i guess the change in the drugs scene hasnt helped...acid techno was born from the free party scene where people were mashed on pills and acid and craved the trippier sounds that Henry...Guy...Lawrie et all produced...then along came ketamine...great for sofa surfing at home...but on the dance floor it turned everone into techno mongs...and the music reflected this...i guess it will be hard to get it back to how it was....if thats whats required, personally i love the more old skool sound, with the real analogue sounds and more of a live feel, unfortunately the way technology is going its all to easy to knock a track up with no real thought and unfortunatley these tracks seem to be getting released.
Its mainly the labels faults for signing this crap. i guess techno (especially acid techno)has painted itself into a corner...and unless some serious rethinking is done then our favourite genre may just have its days numbered.
Techno went up its own arse a while ago. The moment people started stigmatising tunes with a sense of humour as being hard dance or cheese.
This is why I dont bother coming out anymore. Who the hell wants to listen to 8 hours of glitched loops?
It was the drive for "intelligent techno" that screwed it all up. Feck that shoyte. I spend my weekdays chasing mice round my brain and getting wrinkles working about stuff. If I'm going out for a boogiie I want vacuous stupid predictable silliness I can bounce around to until I think my hearts going to explode.
The last tune I heard that fitted the description was Hotwire by 'is lordship. The first cheerful tune in ages.
EXACTLY.Quote:
Originally Posted by nihilist
u dont go to techno nights because your into scouse house ya nerd!! :rockin:Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidTrash
I would say 5 years ago at least this is what was going on... Not with everyone but elements of snootiness were around, which was in relation to Paul Cortex' comments there...Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidTrash
We didn't care tho and played all the Acid we had...
What about these babies that came from yourself Henry:
The Pusher, The Pimp & The Panther :rockin:
http://www.discogs.com/release/74820
Viagra Falls :fro:
http://www.discogs.com/release/31661
This Old World is in a Helluva Fix :psy:
http://www.discogs.com/release/56162
Hells bells, moments in time that I will never forget came from these tunes - what was going on in the studio that created these little beauties...?
Can the energy that went in to creating these tracks be harnessed again?
What are you after? techno that pushes the boundaries? Not scared to be the pioneer and actually experiment with soundscapes and the frequencies to which we are accustomed? You are right about modern techno all sounding the same. Stupid genre names like tech-house which really means (I make commercial music, but like to pretend I'm techno - the original concept))
I have a few acid techno sets from 1996 - 1998. All have crazy sounds and are experimental. hard tuneage that makes you want to stomp while your body is desperate to move in sync with each new wierd and wonderful sound. True organised chaos.
What happened to those experimental days? All the producers wanted more money and then watered down techno until it was received by a larger audience, thus rendering more income for the producers. The same thing happened in hard trance where they started producing watered down crap just to tap into the commercial market where massive income is to be earned. It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out that modern trance and techno has turned into a pathetic example of its original heritage.
It's the producers' fault and the listeners. You say things sound the same, yet you go and buy them. You know what I did when Hardcore (industrial) went all frenchcore (cheese), I stopped buying the vinyl. I made a statement with what can hurt an industry. Sure, I am only one person, but if you all made a statement, then things would change.
You produce records that won't offend people. You are scared of making a track that sounds too 'hardcore' for your commercial market, so you produce the same crap that has little invention. It's an embarrassment to the word 'Techno'.
La Peste goes to factories and records the industrial sounds he hears and also records sounds from railway lines and many other strange and diverse practices, he then goes home and manipulates the sounds and is always experimenting. How many techno producers actually get off their arse and do likewise?
I'm sick of listening to people in the street who tell me they like techno and then when I enquire further, I find out they mean some stale music at 125-140bpm with a carbon copy beat and the odd inoffensive loop every now and then.
If you want to try something that is still developing and will blow your mind, then have a click on the links below... The experimental peak of 'techno' and still pushing the boundaries
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MMMhoMFs7I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAjZhI9Iow0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4GFkpKbvZU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LJZdjUDd8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKOGnXf1A6Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyNQiuBKBYQ
WTF is all that about???
this stuff is not my cup of tea and would empty most dancefloors i play to,
its just not dancefloor/party/punter friendly,
we are talking about re including the punters not frightening them
to quote henry-
"we need TUNES , real jump up raving out of you head anthems , not more heads down , tribal washing machine grooves or cut up hip hop unintelligable vocal mish mashes.
a spot of melody , an acid line , but a concept , and a strong original one ,
thats what rocks the dancefloor evrywhere!
booom!"
littlefella is right....we want the energy back! long live acid techno!
Frightening them? What I am then? oblivious to this sound? Or am I open-minded enough to hear the beauty in this particular invention? Dance floor friendly? That sounds like some gatecrasher comment. What the hell is that anyway? If you are in an 80s bar then blondie is dance floor friendly. If you are at vibealite, then scott brown is dancefloor friendly. If you are at a dNb night then Hype is dance floor friendly. If you are at some crap bar in town, then commercial clubland music is dance floor friendly.
The term itself is nonsensical. I can quite easily dance to 'flashcore' or any form of hardcore above 160bpm.... but give me something slower and i can't move to it. it's too slow. You have to dance like a bird with all your effeminate moves and you look like a tit. How can anyone move their body so slowly and feel comfortable? You just end up looking like a lady boy such as Justin timberlake.
What are you trying to achieve? more listeners? If that's what you want then start playing gatecrasher.
If it's the music you wish to advance rather than the number of participants then it's going to take something radical.
Those who push the boundaries and carry on inventing new sounds always leave genres and produce something on their own...then the previous genre becomes stale, just like your staple 'techno' scene now.
venetian snares
la peste
ed flis
All moving in their own direction producing something you don't affiliate with many others...
Or you can go the other way and producers start to produce music for the masses and the genre they were once pioneers in, also falls apart...
eg sell outs ... then all the wannabes who are part of the 'hero-worship' of these former pioneers remain and copy this music - thus, the previous genre (in all its glory) has taken on a ghost image of dilute techno with added sweeteners.
Shout going out to the aspartame crew.. haha
This music is more like painting with sounds....pictures with sounds...this thread was started by Henry with the aim of discussing how we can restore techno (and acid techno) to the credible entity that it should be, im not saying that this music does not have its place, just not on the dance floors we are refering to...THIS IS THE ACID TECHNO SECTION!
If I want to hear a bag of spanners falling into a spinning propellor, I'll do a wingwalk on the Crunchie bi-plane and lob a toolkit and listen REALLY hard to the next 2 minutes as the engine disintergrates around me sending metallic thrashing sounds crossed with the wind, a grating of metal and ultimately a crash as the plane impacts into the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomdj
I don't want to hear that though. It's just not my cup of tea.
My cup of tea is made of throbbing basslines, screeching 303's and a vocal telling me that "it's the plumber".
Horses for courses though innit.
''My cup of tea is made of throbbing basslines, screeching 303's and a vocal telling me that "it's the plumber".''
Then start listening to the DJ Producer or Promo. :-)
will the plumber please put the wheels back on the washing machine so it can spin it's way out of the musical ghetto wherein it finds itself!!
Thats what I've been saying for ages man.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulcortex
Take the sound back to its roots before it's too late.
In my opinion (and some of my friends), many DJs in the electronic scene are a bit too much in love with the form and are forgetting about the content, THE SUBSTANCE, the vibe, the spirit, the passion. We should use music to transport emotions. A good party night can be a cathartic journey through all emotional states and should be a healing experience. Thats what we working for.
Its all about expressing and evoking personal freedom, CELEBRATING LIFE!
It's all "wow! check out the production" and not enough good track ideas...
here what your saying si, but for every person that wants old style acid there are more saying that sounds old style we want new sounds!
I think that music needs to be seen as "cool" to attract more people to the fray, both listeners and producers. How many times do you hear ANY acid classics played out? I mean anything from the early/mid 90s American, German, UK scenes? I have gone back to being in love with this music, but I also have the luxury of owning a huge amount of it. Most people just don't know what they missed, and they have no way of hearing it. If no one is playing it, few people know about it. The classic sound needs to be hammered back into the collective consciousness to hopefully sow the seeds again for more music that draws on it for inspiration.
Personally, I have never seen Techno as having the same lifespan as music with a Trance structure. In all my years of loving dance music, I have never just whacked an 8 minute loopy Techno track on as listening music. That sort of music is about being in the mix, which will always limit it. We needs tracks that have a story and all that cliched bullshit.
I'll probably get slagged for this, but the only new music I find exciting is the stuff on labels like Cocoon, Border Community, Traum, etc.. BC especially has blown me away with many tracks from young producers who seem to have decided to ignore genre traps and just mash all influences together in a very intelligent way. Check out James Holden, Minilogue, Petter, Extrawelt, etc.. Maybe not music to gurn to, but it at least shows that it's still quite possible to be original and meaningful. And funny how recognition just followed for them as a result of doing music with integrity.
Rambleramble
Oh, and the apathy thing is real across ALL areas of life right now. Here in the USA, people have apparently decided that their TVs are large enough that they don't need to pay attention to our horribly corrupt government. We're just happy to see the latest Let's Make Some Twat A Celebrity - SEE? It Could Happen To You!! drivel. If there's no rebellious spirit left, then art suffers as a result. People are docile cows now, so their modes of expression have no real passion and creativity. Their output is the equivalent of a cow's moo.
**** me, just lost a long post
Basically, modern people = docile = weak art
Our TVs have become distracting ennough that we have no passion for rebellion and the art that it creates.
Exacly, every year we have less and less people who remember old school records. They just leave from music indriusty or they stop producing music.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_psychologist
I not mean only they can get us for new inspiration or make techno music better now, but i think they can make a track by tools with cant used 15 years ago because this tools didnt exist yet.
Why just not use the simple old idea and make a tune by using modern tools for making the music ?
How many of us remember old acid records from 1990 to 1994 ?
I quess not too many but i believe here on boa its the bigest collective producers who still remember this great golden era.
My suggest could be > go back to harthouse label and listen all this old records again, they have everything what we need to get new, great acid tune.
So do I mate, but with some old skool love and thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by nihilist
Look at the tripe that's coming out on SUF soon, that new one by Chris & Guy.
Now look back deep within your record collection and pull out tracks by these two.
How the fu*k did they go from absolute monster track to this trash?
Fair play, the productions great, but the track sucks.
And as retro as I might sound, I'm not calling people to just remake classic tracks. I just think there was an energy and attention to detail in those old Acid Techno/Trance tunes that is often missing these days, and people who are never exposed to them cannot draw on them for inspiration.
There's a reason i can still whack them on 10 to 15 years later and just listen, you know?
Maybe producers think they will win the battle by putting out more tracks, faster, but it just dilutes everything that makes underground dance music good.
Sorry for flogging this old horse again...
My thoughts exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_psychologist
Too many "throw away tracks" are being hammered out. Where's the quality control gone?
well its up to the punters and djs to stop buying this shite and then perhaps the labels might take notice...just because its stay up forever does not mean its going to be a quality release...
Dont get me wrong in the "good ol'days" i would have just seen the stay up forever label and bought it just on that alone, you could be sure it would be a barn storming acid monster, but since the "change" the label seems to have started lowering its sights and releasing anything that guy,chris et all can produce...wheres the rip roaring 303 riffs and the trancy/trippy elements???
if they do indeed want to "stay up forever" they should start broadening the artists they use (like us for instance!! lol) or perhaps they might just become stay at the dole office forever...and we dont want that!!!!
The music should be full of emotion, whatever emotion that may be, it should be something more than the producers need to make a tune and get a release out.
If there is feeling in the music, then people will respond to it.
Endless cold loops made for DJ`s that say nothing to nobody except the man in the booth do nothing to evoke a sense of wonder/exitement/or euphoria in the listener.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
... i guess technology has made it all too easy to allow anyone produce loops.
...thats why the old analogue kit was so good...you had to work like **** to get a good sound and you needed a degree in advanced mathematics to get the old sequencers to work.(especially the tb 303 sequencer!!!)...also the cost of synths and computers was incredible then...so most people couldnt afford to make music and those that did...did it with passion....thats where todays cheap laptops and software packages have stepped in...and the result...anyone can make loops and anyone seems to be releasing this crap...technology is killing techno i guess!
im so glad i kept my hardware kit...even though i do love a bit of audiorealism bassline here and there ;)
Hehe... ABL2 really wails when you set it up right.
And yeah, maybe the emotion is what's missing. I really love that cerebral, sometimes angry, sometimes melancholic music that we used to get so much in older Acid. I'm not really into pisstakes in most cases. I think all artists should try to elevate standards wherever possible.
So I think I'm going to stat slapping together some classic label mixes. I just did one of Acid Phase stuff on Radar. Will post it up soon.
erm not sure what brought all this on, i was only throwing a couple of ideas around.
Well, it's reasonable to suggest it's going to have an effect, isn't it? As it happens you've got the wrong end of the stick here - I'm a firm believer in internet distribution and computer based production - and I think it is the future of techno not to mention music in general. I think in time it will make it BETTER, not worse - it might just take a bit of a transitional phase which is what I think we are starting to go through now. Surely talking about this and understanding it will help us all, yourself included, to make the most of it quicklyQuote:
Originally Posted by dodgyedgy
Perhaps I could have made that a bit clearer mind. ;)
Well people don't enjoy making crap music but since when did an artist's judgement about his own work have anything to do with how good it really is? At least with the distributor/label model, for all it's faults, there was an element of outside quality controlQuote:
Where does it say that people enjoy making crap quality music,
Clearly not, I didn't suggest otherwiseQuote:
Its too easy to make music? No it isnt, the fundamentals of music didnt change overnight you know.
now you're talking. the music industry, of which techno is sadly a part, is a corrupt, outdated schema which has no place in today's society let alone that of the future.Quote:
In one respect there are many many many SHITE music writers out there, but the digital revolution gives people HOPE, it opens doors that were closed. And its ALWAYS the young who create and shape trends, rather than the OG's attempting to hang onto markets they created that no longer work.
i'm well up for anything which shakes up the comfortable status quo. as ive already tried to suggest in this thread i'm pretty positive about the future of techno and digital distribution and production is one of the reasons why
You can`t blame bad music on the tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulcortex
That`s almost as bad as the fans who abandoned bob dillon because he went electric.
It`s the bad musicians who are to blame, and they would be making crap wether it was an akai, a 909, 2 juno`s and a 101, or a laptop.
There has always been bad music.
The problem is bigger than something that simple.
During the analog days there was plenty of terrible music made by rich kids with all the kit.
The only problem is the buyers lack of standards, in allowing bad music to perpetuate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_psychologist
I've booted my Idiot Lantern out of my room... shitey thing :censored:
I pop next door to Davidoff's to watch 'Never Mind the Buzzcocks' mind... :briggin:
Quality control is all down to who's in charge of the Quality Control...Quote:
Originally Posted by Si the Sigh
So... Who is in charge of the Quality Control :ruquestion: :ruquestion:
FINALLY! I think I'll save this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
Welcome to the future Henry...
im actually nervous about releasing stuff, because there are so many bloody critics out there.... no, critic isnt the right word.. techno snobs. so in a sense Mr. Drummer has a point, techno at the moment is throwing out some right turds, because people (not everyone, cos there are some real gems) are playing it really safe.
Hi
It's the first time I write here, excuse me if my english is not very well, I'm from Barcelona and I didn't learn very much about this language at any school.
Mr. Cullen:
I like to see you opening that kind of thread, but at the same time I think you are a little bit involved too in this techno decadence. I tell it to you cause I admire your work, for me you' re THE TECHNO PRODUCER, as it sounds, and I think you still doing great tracks but I also think that in general there are not so good as it was some years ago....
In fact, I never was specially interested in techno music until I started to listen, about 3 years ago, the music that you and your pals do (specially from late 90's to nowadays), to the point that some months ago I' ll started to buy acidous and not so acidous but hard and crazy techno vinyls for mixing.
For example, I think the "atomicalienwhathe****itsays" track in Hydro 36 is great but, for me, is the only one really intersting track that you' ve realesed in this label since number 28, whose both sides are amazing. From your recent tunes I think Arpeggiator, Jack Me and the 4th Dimension remix are good so, and, overall, Hotwire (masterpiece)..... The question is what happened with the rage and energy that was in tunes from the last 90's / first 00's like Hydraulix 9 b side (the guilty of my addiction), SUF 41, 51 & 69 (both sides of them), COSHH 3 (both sides too), Mosquito' s Tweeter, Stretford Wives, BOA 10, the Acid Disco and Break The System remixes or Cradle Cap???? All of them different, all of them incredible and unique music pieces....I' ve said you still doing good tunes but they aren't so original, audacious and variated as before... Why??
He there dirrrti,welcome to blackout :) Don't worry about your english not being perfect,it's probably better than some of the English born and bread posters :laughing:
Case in point :PQuote:
Originally Posted by xes
Or is that why refer to it as having a bun in the oven?
Oh, and welcome dirrrti.
I agree with the fact there was great choons around the time of 2001,2002,2003... listen to adam beyer sets and umek live @i love techno, great songs in these mixs,
but i still think there lots of good choons coming out maybe not the same as they were, but greatly produced, maybe not as catchy but come on,
i have listened to loves of gems comin out recently all across the board , im very picky when buying records, ill only get and play what i really like, and my record collection has grow with favs over the last 2 years, im more intreasted in the new stuff than tryin to build a collection of classics,
fair play for saying it, I couldn't agree more. The simple fact is that there is NO LSD in the music. . I guess all the producers are doing coke and ket and making soulless and crap sounding techno and earbleeding shranzz. GOOD LSD = GOOD ACID TECHNO, and it's as simple as that. I remember a few years ago when all my buddies started hitting ket, "this is death to the scene" I thought, and it looks like I was right.. There's no love at the free parties any more, and all the people are well sketchey, with big ego's and bad attitudes. I know that's a big generalisation, but it's true.. Looks like ketamine (or powdered death as I call it) has served it's purpus and killed the party scene. Bring back good LSD and the good music will come back.
also, apex records is THE best label at the mo.. keeping it alive man
good show there.......
I' m agree with you in almost of what you say, squidfanny. But for me, paradoxically, the best label right now is Getafix, whose vinyls always have references to K, a drug that I hate but seems to inspire great sounds to the people behind this label.
it's sad what you said squidfanny ... but unfortunatelly true
get ya facts straight .....LSD music is psy trance!!!
If LSD music is psy trance, why ACID techno is called like this???
I have to say also that there's been a lot of people in LSD and MUSIC many time before the invention of psy trance. Have you ever listened about Jimi Hendrix, The Beatles, The Doors, Pink Floyd and so many other people??
LSD it' s a so crazy and complex thing that it's impossible to limitate it to one style of music or anything else.
cant handle acid spins me the **** out...Quote:
Originally Posted by fatcollective
mayb we could all seek inspiration by wearing odd fluorescent clothing in the studio!
:D